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Thread: Max FPS in old rifle barrels?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Leaving everything else aside, all you need to know is that at some point, shooting cast bullets only, you'll get leading, and lots of it. There's no attainable speed that will do damage to the barrel from speed alone, unless you want to stipulate that damage due to aggressive de-leading methods counts.

    Shooting metal patch bullets, there's no speed slow enough to eliminate wear to the rifling.

    In the time when that rifle was made, paper patching was still the preferred technology for the large-caliber military military rifles in Europe, and was preferred by many of the men who were finishing off the last of the buffalo in our western states. Paper-patched bullets do not lead barrels, and do not wear barrels, no matter what kind of powder is used nor at what velocity. The NRA's Col. Harrison wrote extensively on his PP experiments, which among other things pushed PP bullets to 3000 fps (in strong rifles!). Do some reading on paper patching. I'm sure Harrison's articles can be found somewhere. And I would be surprised if research did not turn up factory 40-82 ammo loaded with paper patched bullets.
    flectere si nequeo superos, acheronta movebo

  2. #22
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    i have a old 450 rifle ,1871,and when I first got it ,many years ago,there was a lot of Hornady 45 rifle bullets about........meant for 458 W,Im thinking......anyway,these bullets noticeably flattened the rifling....not wore ,flattened.....probably about 300 shots.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=uscra112;4655323]Leaving everything else aside, all you need to know is that at some point, shooting cast bullets only, you'll get leading, and lots of it.

    Rubbish!!!! He says the bore is good - the rifle shoots good - if he uses good fitting boolits with decent lube - and keeps the speed to 1500or less should not have a problem.
    If he gets a lot of leading then he got something wrong with his load or the barrel is rough. Grease groove boolits wont wear the rifling at all - I'd bet PP more likely to wear it than greasers. (you will do more wear cleaning than either)

  4. #24
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Reading comprehension, IJ. The context is about boosting his MV, and sure enough, at some elevated velocity his barrel will start to lead, unless he starts using hard lead with gas checks or paper patches. Frankly, I think he'll be risking the rifle by excessive pressure before he gets there, but that wasn't the context.

    Harry Pope used to show a Schuetzen barrel he used himself with PP bullets. Claimed over 100,000 rounds through it. Still perfect.

    Yes, all too many of those Winchester lever guns were spoiled by cleaning from the muzzle than were worn out by shooting.
    flectere si nequeo superos, acheronta movebo

  5. #25
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    Actually,I think more were ruined by not cleaning from either end .

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=indian joe;4655362]
    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Leaving everything else aside, all you need to know is that at some point, shooting cast bullets only, you'll get leading, and lots of it.

    Rubbish!!!! He says the bore is good - the rifle shoots good - if he uses good fitting boolits with decent lube - and keeps the speed to 1500or less should not have a problem.
    If he gets a lot of leading then he got something wrong with his load or the barrel is rough. Grease groove boolits wont wear the rifling at all - I'd bet PP more likely to wear it than greasers. (you will do more wear cleaning than either)
    I agree. I haven't had any leading in any of my rifles or handguns once I figured out the proper bullet size and lube. I do push some of the rifle rounds fast!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=uscra112;4655402]Reading comprehension, IJ. The context is about boosting his MV, and sure enough, at some elevated velocity his barrel will start to lead, unless he starts using hard lead with gas checks or paper patches. Frankly, I think he'll be risking the rifle by excessive pressure before he gets there, but that wasn't the context.
    I just took it how ya wrote it - ya left out the bit about elevating the velocity - I though we had him talked out of the go faster thing already

    Harry Pope used to show a Schuetzen barrel he used himself with PP bullets. Claimed over 100,000 rounds through it. Still perfect.
    hmm 10 shots per day every day of his life for 27 years ????

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    I was just asking to gain abit of knowledge. Im not set on increasing the fps, and I never shot any jacketed bullets.
    Good to know though that lead will not wear the barrel if lubed.

  9. #29
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    Strange ideas some people get about cast......I had a guy come rushing up to me ,and say to stop firing straight away,or Id blow up the gun.........why?...because he d been counting ,and I fired more than 5 "lead bullets".......I said.."mate ,there is 70 more here,and Ill fire them all in the next couple of hours".........Then he goes on about how he seen it happen.......I think he may have been crazy.......cause ..believe it or not.....sometimes socialworkers bring disabled people down to the range....to meet other people...(and cause there are disabled facilities,like ramps and toilets, and parking.)...............one point,never PP with cheap rcycled paper,its full of abrasive whitener,and will wear barrels.
    Last edited by john.k; 05-31-2019 at 03:04 AM.

  10. #30
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    The Last time I Paper Patched a Bullet, I used Rag based 'Onion skin' paper. I have not seen it for sale in any Stationary Store since. For that matter, I have not seen an open Stationary Store for decades either.

    Worked Well for my Black Powder Behind Lead loads in my Iver Johnson 'Cattleman' Single Action 44-40 Revolver.

    Chev. William

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Strange ideas some people get about cast......I had a guy come rushing up to me ,and say to stop firing straight away,or Id blow up the gun.........why?...because he d been counting ,and I fired more than 5 "lead bullets".......I said.."mate ,there is 70 more here,and Ill fire them all in the next couple of hours".........Then he goes on about how he seen it happen.......I think he may have been crazy.......cause ..believe it or not.....sometimes socialworkers bring disabled people down to the range....to meet other people...(and cause there are disabled facilities,like ramps and toilets, and parking.)...............one point,never PP with cheap rcycled paper,its full of abrasive whitener,and will wear barrels.
    I never heard about that but ok.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Glossy papers are coated with clay in a binder. When paper is recycled, they have no way of ensuring that some of that clay isn't in the recycled product, even if they wanted to eliminate it.

    Come to my estate auction when I die. There will be what's left of a full ream of rag bond that I bought 20 years ago.
    flectere si nequeo superos, acheronta movebo

  13. #33
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    Its worse than that.....recycled paper tends to be yellowish,so both fine grain silica flour and titanium dioxide are added as whiteners.......When I want to polish an old BP barrel ,I use PP made from $4 a pack computer printer paper.Shines em up nice,and enough will shine em into a smoothbore.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    I probably wont PP anytime soon. I just received a new mold in the mail. The original bullet is 260gr. This one casts a 300 grain. Nice little pill.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check