Whats the heaviest lead mix?

[Kev18]

Im getting a mold made From Accurate Molds and it's dropping a 300grn bullet. My rifle's max weight is 330grains for a bullet since it needs to be under a certain length. 300 grains is good enough for me but I was wondering what mixes are possible to make the bullet heavier/lighter?

Is pure lead the heaviest?

[BNE]

Pure Lead is the heaviest.

[dimaprok]

Im getting a mold made From Accurate Molds and it's dropping a 300grn bullet. My rifle's max weight is 330grains for a bullet since it needs to be under a certain length. 300 grains is good enough for me but I was wondering what mixes are possible to make the bullet heavier/lighter?

Is pure lead the heaviest?

what caliber/cartridge. 300gr is already pretty heavy by my standards, 30 extra grain won't make much of a difference. Also molds rarely drop the weight they specify, unless they've been specifically calibrated for your alloy.

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[Kev18]

what caliber/cartridge. 300gr is already pretty heavy by my standards, 30 extra grain won't make much of a difference. Also molds rarely drop the weight they specify, unless they've been specifically calibrated for your alloy.

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I specified wheel weights. They ask for when they make it. Its my first time ordering a custom mold.

Its for a winchester 1886 in 40-82. I now have 260grns bullets but I always wanted a little more weight. 260grns is a factory weight that caliber came out in. I guess il make it closer to a 45-70. Its not a modern barrel so im at 1500fps max. More then that and iv'e been told its bad?

[JBinMN]

COWW 9 pounds
50/50 solder 1 pound
= 10 pounds of an alloy close to Lyman#2 with 5%Tin, 3%Antimony, 92%Lead

BHN = About 14-15

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If you have some Linotype,

COWW 9 pounds
Lino 2 pounds
Virgin tin or pewter 7 ounces
= 11.7 pounds of a duplicate of Lyman#2 with 4.9% Tin, 4.45%Antimony, 90.65%Lead
Also about 14-15 BHN

Both should be suitable for your 1500+/- velocity,( up to even 17-1800 likely) and you could likely add some lead in lieu of some of the COWW to add a little weight, but it will soften the BHN in some manner, I would reckon.

If you had not mentioned "heat treating" that alloy to the mold maker, you could likely get by with adding lead instead of some of the COWW & then water drop to achieve hardness while trying to gain weight via the added lead for the weight & then water drop heat treatment to gain back BHN.

It will likely take a bit of experimentation for you to get the alloy figured out to reach your boolit weight goal as well as the hardness level to prevent issues like leading at your velocity of 1500+/-.

Since you have not even rec'd & used the mold with you COWW alloy, I would wait until you do have it & cast some boolits & see what COWW average boolit weight is, & then work on changing alloy, or water dropping, etc., if necessary to reach the weight goal you seek.

G'Luck!

[JBinMN]

I was going to ETA to the last post, but decided to just make another post so the last one was not too long...

I know it is an assumption on my part, but I would hope that you realize that as you increase the weight of the boolit, you will need to reduce the amount of powder used, as compared to a lighter boolit, and while that will likely not only reduce the velocity of the round, but that it also is likely to increase the pressures that are reached by the powder trying to start & move that boolit down the bbl..

If you were not aware of it, you can see this by studying a few comparative firearms & how, as the weight of the projectile increases, the range of suggested powder(s) amounts is reduced. That reduction of powder is to compensate for the heavier weight of the projectile making it harder to get moving than the lighter projectile(s) and the pressure to move the heavier one if too much powder is used, can increase the pressure substantially, likely causing issues with the firearms capability to handle such pressure, & possibly cause harm to the shooter.

You can generally use reasonable close in weight, heavier projectile load data for lighter projectiles, but not lighter projectiles load data for heavier projectiles. Over-pressure & damage to the firearm & possibly the shooter may result.

In your case you may be able to use data for the 300gr. boolit with your 330 gr. boolit, but I would suggest you reduce the Start load amount a little bit more, instead of trying it right out of a book, just to be on the safe side. Of course that is entirely up to you, it is your firearm & safety of yourself & others that are possibly nearby, & not mine. I would choose to be safe.


Another consideration is that when you reduce the powder & add weight to the projectile, since it is likely to cause an increase in pressure to get that projectile started & moving down the bbl., but that increase of pressure does not mean you are going to see an increase in velocity. The velocity will likely decrease a bit.

While the lesser powder amount is to keep the pressure down to not create a dangerous over-pressure, it will likely result in a loss of velocity, as much energy is used to get the heavier projectile started & moving & since that force from pressure is used up to get the projectile moving, it is not likely to increase the velocity any more than a lighter projectile would be, using the same amount of powder.

I know this is already a long post, so I will not give examples for you to read to explain these principles any better unless you ask for them.

I wish ya G'Luck! in your endeavors to get that heavier boolit to work & do so safely!

[JBinMN]

Something I went to look at & thought I would being it here in case it was not known. I cannot verify the veracity( if it is true), but it seems to ring true, and is worth the effort to find out more if this info is not known for sure already & no-one I know, but a "gun grabber" would want to possibly ruin a valuable antique firearm.

...Snip...
Despite being originally designed for use with black powder, the action was strong enough to make the jump to smokeless powder with only minor modifications.
...Snip...

History

The Model 1886 continued the trend towards chambering heavier rounds, and had an all-new and considerably stronger locking-block action than the toggle-link Model 1876. It was designed by John Moses Browning, who had a long and profitable relationship with Winchester from the 1880s to the early 1900s. William Mason also contributed, making some improvements to Browning's original design. In many respects the Model 1886 was a true American express rifle, as it could be chambered in the more powerful black powder cartridges of the day, proving capable of handling not only the .45-70 but also .45-90 and the huge .50-110 Express "buffalo" cartridges.[2][3] The action was strong enough that a nickel-steel barrel was the only necessary modification needed to work with smokeless powder cartridges, and in 1903 the rifle was chambered for the smokeless high-velocity .33 WCF cartridge.[1]

Source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1886

So, I hope your Winchester 1886 in 40-82 has a nickel steel bbl., or if not, that you are using black powder to fire anything in that firearm.


G'Luck!

[243winxb]

Bullet Sizes & Weights – How to Vary Them

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
The bullet diameters and weights presented in this list
are based on the use of Taracorp’s Lawrence Magnum
bullet alloy (2% tin, 6% antimony, 1/4% arsenic,
91.75% lead).
Bullet diameters and weights will vary considerably
depending on the lead casting alloy used. This variation
can be as much as 1/2% on the diameter, and 8% on
the weight among the most commonly used casting
alloys. For example, a .358-158 grain bullet might
show a diameter variation of .002", and a 13 grain difference
in weight.
Of the most commonly used alloys, wheel weights (.5%
tin, 4% antimony, 95% lead) will produce bullets having
the smallest diameter and heaviest weight, with
such bullets running approximately .3% smaller in
diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with
Taracorp's metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the
largest diameter and lightest weights. This alloy will
produce bullets approximately 1/10% larger and 3%
lighter than Taracorp. Other alloys of tin and antimony,
with antimony content above 5%, will produce bullets
with diameters and weights falling between those cast
from wheel weights and linotype.
Alloys containing little or no antimony will cast considerably
smaller than wheel weights and in some cases
will produce bullets too small for adequate sizing.
**Within the limitations given above, the weight and
diameter of a cast bullet can be adjusted by varying the
alloy’s antimony content.**
The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will also
vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures
will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet
cools, thereby producing a slightly smaller and lighter
bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature .

[Conditor22]

In short:
softer = pure = heavier/smaller
harder = foundry / superhard = lighter/bigger

[dimaprok]

In short:
softer = pure = heavier/smaller
harder = foundry / superhard = lighter/bigger

I think you got smaller / bigger backwards. The pure soft lead produces bigger bullets in diameter than alloys like linotype/foundry/superhard. However the hard alloys are more resistant to sizing with my water quenched WW at 20-30 BHN I always end up 1 thousand oversize (.356 come out .357 and 309 come out 310) where as soft lead matches die size.

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[Conditor22]

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm



Tip: Wheel weights (.5% tin, 1/4% arsenic, 2-3% antimony, 96-7% lead) will produce bullets having the smallest diameter and heaviest weight of the common bullet alloy's, With such bullets running approximately 3/10 of 1% smaller in diameter and 3% heavier than bullets cast with Lyman # 2 metal. Linotype will produce bullets with the largest diameter and lightest weights of the common alloy's. Linotype alloy will produce bullets approximately 1/10 of 1% larger and 3% lighter than Lyman # 2.

Tip: The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools and produce a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.

[Kev18]

Well there's alot of info to take in here!

[Conditor22]

Kev18 figure how fast you'll be pushing the boolit and how hard the lead needs to be for that, figure the alloy you'll need and go from there

[RogerDat]

Don't forget some powder coat will give you a lot more latitude in velocity for a given alloy hardness. Cool Whip bowl, some black airsoft BB's, a thrift store toaster oven and some of Smokes powder coat paint (or Harbor Freight red, and only red) will provide your bullets with a significant boost in lubrication and the coating will prevent leading.

I don't know of any rule of thumb for how much the BHN can go down, or the velocity increase with powder coat but it does impact the acceptable values for both of those.

[PBaholic]

I pour my boolits (.45ACP, .45 Colt, .38 and .357) at BHN 10 and then Powder Coat. I've pour BHN 8 with no real problem, other than they are heavier. BHN 5 and 6 create a big boolit that doesn't come out of the mold very well, although once out, the PC well and shoot fine.

Before I PC'd, I used to pour at BHN 12 to 16.

[Dusty Bannister]

I've pour BHN 8 with no real problem, other than they are heavier. BHN 5 and 6 create a big boolit that doesn't come out of the mold very well, although once out, the PC well and shoot fine.
---------------------------------------------
The above statement is incorrect. Pure lead does not cast bigger, just heavier. The antimony in the melt is what increases the as cast diameter and the hardness.

[John Boy]

Kev, The original 40-82 smokeless load manufactured by Winchester velocity of a 260 grain bullet is 1,490 fps. So Be Sure your reload powder charge for the 300 gr bullet does not exceed the '1500' fps
For good bullet obturation, Lyman #2 (Bhn 15.4) would be a good alloy choice to cast the bullets at with no wad or gas check

[country gent]

Pure lead is heaviest adding to it normally the agents are less dense so a lighter bullet results. Also alloy does affect size of the cast bullet both as cast and when sized. Bullet length is a better indicator of what will stabilize is a given barrel twist rate. Shape of the bullet has a big effect on length, A true round nose will be much shorter than a postell or spire point style. Hence in the same wright the round nose may stabilize and the others wont. his was seen in early 243s with the slower twist 100 grn round nose would stabilize and shoot fairly well but 100 grn spire points and longer wouldn't. Same weight different lengths. Another big factor in this is velocity.

Going from the 260 grn at 1500 to a 300 grn bullet I would look for velocities in the 1350-1400 fps range. Loading the heavier bullet to the same 1500 fps will require higher pressures to get there. I normally shoot heavy for caliber bullets in my rifles. 360 grn in 38 cal 400-425 in 40 cal and 500-550 grn in 45 cal while the velocity starts out slightly slower after a couple hundred yards the heavies are ahead and hit much harder at distance.

[dondiego]

You could add Bismuth (Bi) or Polonium (Po) to make it heavier............good luck with that though.

[earlmck]

What the boys failed to tell you is that you are not going to get a lot heavier boolit changing from clip-on wheelweight metal to pure lead. My calculator says that if your boolit weighs 300 grains using COWW, it'll weigh a bit less than 305 grains with pure lead. Changing to pure linotype would give you about a 285 grainer and Lyman #2 a 292 grainer. And the COWW, especially if water-dropped, will give you the hardness you need for your desired velocity level.

And you can certainly reach that velocity with smokeless at very modest pressures as you probably already know.