Will I really kill my toaster with a PID

[Ramson222]

Just bought a new convection 8 slice toaster, I have seen it mentioned that unless the fan is rewired to run continuously, it will burn out because of the PID. Has this happened to anyone? Any ideas on how to rewire this Black and Decker toaster, I did happen to get the 4yr warranty for $10.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[popper]

I rewired the cal rods to another 120 cord which goes to my pid. If upper and lower cal rods, set to IIRC broil. Timer will still work the fan so don't walk off and forget. Other way is disconnect fan wires and connect them to a cord/plug. It's a ac motor that doesn't like the pulses from the PID and when the PID is off it will not run. Be sure to insulate any connections (wire nuts) and strain relieve any cord you add.
If the oven has any electronic controls (not just the normal timer/thermal switch) do NOT run anything but the cal rods on the PID!!

[Ramson222]

Sounds complicated. So just disconnect the fan completely and wire straight to a cord. Plug the rest into the PID.

[Conditor22]

Yes, plug the main power cord into the PID after you wire the fan directly to a power source not controlled by the PID. Make sure you check to see the power required for the fan. ( 110 V / 12 V ? )

[Ramson222]

So sometimes I dont pay attention. I cut the wires going to the fan on the toaster before checking to see if the air from the fan comes out the top set of ports or the lower set inside the oven, when the oven is on convection.
Anyone know which one?
Or which direction the fan motor is supposed to rotate?
Oh and my fan is marked 120 60hz, so I used a cord from a blow dryer marked 125 60hz. I assume its okay to use.

[georgerkahn]

Ramson222 -- ours is a not-so-precise language -- 'specially re technical terms where one would think the reverse would prevail. To wit is the terminology for that which is available to power most household electric items. From a high voltage alternating current voltage -- those single lines, generally at each end of the cross-tee on power poles -- each feeds the primary side of a voltage reducing transformer -- those "cans", also generally atop said poles. From the secondary side of this transformer is ~240 volts, which enters your house. A grounding/earth center-tap of this voltage splits it, so you have available the ~240 volts as is -- for , say, electric clothes dryers, water heaters, electric ranges, water pumps; and, this voltage is split to offer two sets of ~120 volts -- for your electric outlets -- technically called "female duplex receptacles".
Our electric distribution is via alternating current, a system spearheaded by George Westinghouse, as a feature of a.c. is its ability to transform/change its voltage. The rate at which it alternates is pretty given in the 'States, at 60 cycles per second, technically called "60 Hertz". This is a given.
However -- re voltage we get into all sorts of variables and factors. There is "RMS Voltage"; pure sine-wave peal to peak; and many others. BUT, rest assured, "110V", "110VAC", "117V", "120Volts", "120VAC", and "125V" / "125 60hz" ALL are the same thing!
Perhaps of greater importance re any wiring/rewiring is the diameter of the wires one is using -- generally many reckon 18 gauge wire -- common zip cord -- is "safe" to carry up to eight amperes at 110V, etc. ; and, also of great importance is the insulation on the wires to keep them from contacting each other. Of great importance here is re any heat device -- e.g., toasters -- as said insulation must have properties to prevent it from melting from the appliance heat.
Note -- this is a VERY simplified post -- with main intent to give a basic of our electric service -- explanation (I hope) re the "125 60hz" cord.
BEST!
geo

[GregLaROCHE]

Wiring the fan to constant power seems to be the most logical first step. Just keep in mind, that the moment you start changing things, you will probably loose your $10. investment in the extended, as well as normal warranties.

[Willbird]

The PID would not be good for a fan I bet. Also if you refer to ELI the ICE man you might see that each time the element is energized the voltage lags current .

https://www.eham.net/articles/7591

Leaving the poor motor running all the time maybe in a brownout simulation .

PID is even hard on pure resistance heating elements...there are companies that make phase shift heater controls that change the offset of two 60Hz SIN waves to control heat output rather than using a bunch of on-off cycles, we use some of them at work.

Bill

[Dragonheart]

I would simply put a seperate toggle switch on the fan and not try using a plug in PID box as the constant on/off cannot be good for the fan motor.

[popper]

Fan is AC so doesn't matter how you wire it. PID is not hard on cal rods, they are just resistive. Mine has been used for 5 years or so.

[Willbird]

Fan is AC so doesn't matter how you wire it. PID is not hard on cal rods, they are just resistive. Mine has been used for 5 years or so.

The IR bulbs we use at work may be more sensitive ?? They are resistors was well, anything is a resistor really even super conductors are resistors to some degree .

Bill

[Dragonheart]

I can see no reason the cycling of a PID will do any damage to standard heating coils. However, I can see how the life may be shortened with heating lamps like quartz.

I don't know this to be a fact, and this is certainly not in my field, but logic tells me any element using a tungsten resistor would have its life shortened by the constant on/off cycle of a PID. I base my statement because of the surge of current to the element on startup is typically be many times the peak current unless it is limited in some fashion. The constant on/off surge of current I would think would cause the tungsten to oxidize much faster and shorten the element's life. Now does this really shorten life by much, I don't know. Somewhere there is probably a paper written on the subject. As for me I would install the PID and see what happens. At the worse I lose an inexpensive toaster oven, but I may get years of good use before that happens.

[popper]

Halogen/mercury bulbs use the halogen to recombine spewed metal back onto the filament. Filaments are basically unsupported and much more fragile than cal rods. Calrods in real ovens last 30 or more years. ELI the ICE man doesn't apply to resistive loads.

[Ramson222]

I just wired my fan to a cord with a built in switch. Should last for a few years. Instead of burning out.

[6bg6ga]

Use the PID to maintain the desired temp you need. The toasters control should take care of the fan.

[Gatch]

My oven has a seperate control on it for fan on/off. So the pid is wired only into the switch that conteols the heating elements.

[6bg6ga]

Wire the fans to come on with the heating elements

[igolfat8]

Each heating element has a wire on each end. Is one end hot (black) and the other end neutral?

[retread]

Before I would rewire it I would test it with a thermometer and see if it holds temperature consistently. I bought an Oster convection oven with the thought of controlling it with a PID but tried it first and found that it held 400 degrees and stayed there. I did however have to set it a 425 to obtain the 400 mark. Has not let me down for several years now.

[Dragonheart]

When I built my 30" PC oven I used a PID because the oven controls were shot and the reason I got the oven for free. Otherwise I see no need for a PID if an oven will get to 400 degrees and hold a reasonable constant temp once its there, because that is all it needs to do for PC.