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Thread: Glyphosate - a carcinogen (or not)?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    I am concerned about GMO's more than RU. I have no chemical engineering background to make the assertion that perhaps some of the honey bee demise is a result of GMO's. I see the relationship in mass food production of making plants resistant to RU, ergo GMO.

    But what have we lost in that relationship? GMO corn, soy beans, et al, are still pollenated in the same manner. Do we know ON A CELLULAR LEVEL if the pollen and nectar of GMO flowers are equivalent to the non-modified varieties? Do GMO's have an adverse effect on bees? If we lose bees - we're done.

    RU to GMO to bees...the demise of the OP. Oh well...carry on.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Land Owner View Post
    I am concerned about GMO's more than RU. I have no chemical engineering background to make the assertion that perhaps some of the honey bee demise is a result of GMO's. I see the relationship in mass food production of making plants resistant to RU, ergo GMO.

    But what have we lost in that relationship? GMO corn, soy beans, et al, are still pollenated in the same manner. Do we know ON A CELLULAR LEVEL if the pollen and nectar of GMO flowers are equivalent to the non-modified varieties? Do GMO's have an adverse effect on bees? If we lose bees - we're done.

    RU to GMO to bees...the demise of the OP. Oh well...carry on.
    Can't add much to that except I 110% agree, especially the part about the bees! We already have a noticeable shortage of honey bees here where I am and it's very difficult to maintain a thriving hive anymore, it's gotten to the point that just having a hive survive at all is a major accomplishment.
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  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    While there is no doubt that honey bees are in peril, there is much less concensous on what is causing it.

    I sit on a County Farm bureau board and another of our board members is a retired commercial bee keeper who is very much politically active and a bee advocate.

    He and his wife (they are both fire crackers) travel around the world and they are convinced that we need more research and less finger pointing at farm chemicals and genetic engineering. They are very intense in scrutinizing upon the mite (I believe) that attacks bees. The rest of it seems to center on bee cross breeding.

    They just returned from a 2 week stint in Turkey and were very impressed with a research station there that is working with bees. The thing that impressed them most was the level of care and professionalism and the control of the queens to not go out and breed with some vagrant male.

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  4. #44
    Boolit Master

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    Triple,4 I was not speculating on what is causing the bee problem although after re-reading my post it does look kind of like I was blaming the chemicals. While I am sure pesticides are part of the problem (very small part) due to bees being killed when visiting sprayed crops the fact is that even more deadly chemicals were in use back when bees were thriving so it's hard to say that pesticides are THE cause, in fact IMHO I think it unlikely. I also agree with the finger pointing at pesticides because used properly they are proven safe but people who know nothing about farming fall for alarmist nonsense, that sort of thing causes all of us problems. As far as GMO it's not just alarmists but prominent scientists warning that GMO is getting into the environment with unknown potential consequences before enough study has been done, the fact is the HUGE profit potential is rushing the development before science knows enough about it! Take corn for instance, GMO corn was supposed to be restricted to experimental plots at first and we were told it would not escape into the environment but nature being what it is it got into the environment almost immediately! Today there are restrictions in place on growing GMO corn but it's a joke and the genes from GMO corn has contaminated a big percentage of the corn crop and likely will get the rest of it in a few years, in this case it "seems" to be OK, at least so far and quite likely will remain so, but if it had of produced a dangerous crop it would still be out there and the consequences could have been a major disaster we could have done little about! GMO is likely to be the way of the future and probably be a major scientific achievement that will benefit everyone but rushing into it with inadequate caution, as IS being done, could be he worst disaster mankind has ever seen, even some top researchers are saying it's not yet ready for prime time but profits are outweighing reason.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    It really is as simple as that, sure if everyone wanted to do it the old way and get out in the garden for hours on end and manually pull weeds, hoe vegetables, physically pick bugs off certain crops, etc then maybe we could do without chemicals. As the saying goes, "I been there done that and bought the Tee shirt" and I know from experience when I growing up it's a full time job all spring, summer and into the fall with no time left to work another job, I spent many miserable hours when I was a kid hoeing the garden when I wanted to go fishing or some such so I know full well what's involved in trying to make do without pesticides! Not saying that's a bad way to live and I can look back on it without regret but I SERIOUSLY doubt many folks would be willing to do that these days, I know I certainly wouldn't want to! Besides doing it that way is so inefficient compared to modern chemical reliant methods I doubt there's enough farmland currently available to feed everyone even if every person was willing to do it that way.


    So if I may add a bit to the "no herbicide" statement you so correctly made it's basically "No chemicals/pesticides=no food in the grocery stores!
    And there it is in a nutshell. There is not enough farmland left to produce the food that the world needs unless we use the chemicals made available to us.

  6. #46
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    I gots lots of skin cancers ,etc on my arms,and had removed ....I know what caused em...the sun.......driving dozers ,trucks with my arm out the window,and motorbikes didnt help none either.......but if some smarty lawyer says I can get you $400M from Monsanto ,for that,then I aint gonna refuse.......after all ,it aint me telling lies,its some smartie experts.......Funny thing is ,about half the greens and cryin chillren think RoundUp is a insecticide,and is killin all the bugs.,,,but idiots live in apartments like to believe something,pity is they aint gunna die of AIDs any more.

  7. #47
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    If you read a little it is evident that GMO corn and soybeans are basically immune to ROUNDUP - the purpose of the mutation. And most of the profit goes to seed companies (Monsanto). There are mutations effecting plant characteristics, yield and such. EU doesn't like GMOs but except for a strain of individuals in a northern state, I see no evidence that feeding STAR corn to cattle (or people) has anyone turned into an ear/kernel. GEO or field genetic modification (the OLD hybred method) are the same. I will repeat - follow the money.
    Whatever!

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    Anyone ever sprayed acres of weeds knows just about all beans are immune to roundup.......I got these climbing beans ,pods 3 foot long,sticky seeds(beans?) spread by birds........climb anything,trees,poles ,cars ,trucks,and they stick.....anyhoo ,immune to roundup,near immune to tebuthiuron,have to use costly picloram to kill them.....So monsanto would know this very well , having invented roundup,and hype the effect for gain.

  9. #49
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    I know a couple farmers that have NHL (one recently passed away). Don't know which farm chemical it is from, but pretty sure it's probably from one of them. Both lived very hard working, clean lives. It's a shame.

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy nueces5's Avatar
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    Yes, it is clearly a carcinogenic. Unfortunately there is a lot of money at stake, but in these things, eventually it happily ends up being fair. Recently, in some provinces of Argentina, its use has been prohibited.

  11. #51
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    I have read where the surveys taken before and and after to detect a change in the rate of NHL in the various populations. There were no difference before and after.
    Do any of you remember the asphalt company that was run out of business many years ago by the lawyers? Remember the Billions of dollars the lawyers got from the cigarette companies. And the asbestos companies that were looted by the lawyers? Yes there have been harm from these and more chemical companies but the lawyers have virtually raped the companies to death. By the time the government got their back sides in gear and tried to inject some common sense in the regulation of the harmful chemicals, the lawyers had looted the companies and burned them to the ground.
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  12. #52
    Boolit Master
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    We got our first Roundup case going here......but they wont have an easy ride like in the US....the plaintiff will have to demonstrate a causal link,not supposition and crying widders ,like in a US court...and any payout will be quite modest too.I think they are hoping for a worldwide settlement from Monsanto s underwriters......Bear in mind ,all glyphosate is not M/s,the stuff has been made in China for years.

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have said that it does cause cause cancer for decades, I live in a very rural area and no one dies of old age here ALL die of cancer of some type. We even have baby''s born with cancer, there is next to nothing here for you to be exposed to except farm chemicals. It is pumped into drinking water systems by accident once and a while because the farmers have water stations hooked direct to the water main, the pump on the chemical tank is in reverse and 500 GALLONS OF ROUND UP GOES IN WATER SYSTEM. Wonder how often it does not get reported?

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you are worried about glyphosate causing cancer, maybe you should stop using sun screen also.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    I think some people need to read this:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corr...mply_causation
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  16. #56
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    Shingle, water fill and even home lines has back flow valves installed here.

  17. #57
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    I believe glyphospate is one of the few things keeping us from all out world war due to hunger.
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  18. #58
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    I spent 32 years as a NYS Pesticide regulator. First of all, everything in life has risks. RU is probably as safe as many chemicals we use as pesticides, solvents, automotive fluids, paints, stains, etc. Chemical exposures in general probably do increase health risks, but to put a numerical label or to access that risk for each individual is impossible. Like medicines, machines and most scientific discoveries, pesticides have saved more lives by preventing starvation and pest carried diseases, than they have harmed. Read and follow the label, use appropriate safety equipment, avoid skin and inhalation contact as much as possible and use only where needed and don’t worry( as worrying is probably worse for your health).

  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by nueces5 View Post
    Yes, it is clearly a carcinogenic. Unfortunately there is a lot of money at stake, but in these things, eventually it happily ends up being fair. Recently, in some provinces of Argentina, its use has been prohibited.
    So isn't sugar and a ton of other things. In fact, just about everything is a carcinogen if the dose is large enough. People in the US have about a 2% or less chance of getting non-Hodgkin lymphoma the majority of which are over 65. It seems to me that the "risk" of about every type of cancer non behavioral based closely corresponds to the increased longevity of the population. In other words, if you live long enough you get something.

    If The Mayo Clinic is not sure of the link then I'm not not too worried.

    Instead of hysterical jumps to conclusions based on media hype and huge jury verdicts how about taking a look at the actual laboratory testing of glyphosates?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4819582/

    I'll jump to the chase in case people don't want to wade through the multiple studies and findings as the math gets tough plus reading scientific findings can be difficult.

    An extraordinarily large volume of animal data has been compiled to evaluate the carcinogenic potential of glyphosate. The expected normal biological variability for spontaneous tumor formation is reflected across this extensive data set (Tables 20–23). However, no specific neoplasm stands out as a consequence of glyphosate exposures. While some individual studies may note an increase in a specific neoplasm at the high dose, the pooled data fail to identify any consistent pattern of neoplasm formation, demonstrating that the effect is not reproducible and not treatment-related. The lack of a dose-response across the several orders of magnitude suggests that no individual tumor of single etiology is attributable to glyphosate administration.

    Furthermore: Glyphosate has undergone repeated and extensive review by the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA 1993), the European Union (EC 2002, Germany Rapporteur Member State 2015b) and the World Health Organization/Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (WHO/FAO 2004b, WHO/FAO 2004a). With regard to potential carcinogenic effects of glyphosate, the unanimous outcome of these reviews has been that the data provide sufficient evidence to conclude that glyphosate should not be considered a carcinogen.

    Mink et al. published a review of the available epidemiological studies that investigated possible associations between glyphosate and cancer diagnosed in humans (Mink et al. 2012). No evidence was found for a statistically significant positive association between cancer and exposure to glyphosate.

    "... a later summary of AHS results note that there were no associations between glyphosate use and a number of cancers, including lymphohematopoietic cancers, leukemia, NHL, and multiple myeloma (Weichenthal et al. 2010)."

    I USED ROUND-UP + I GOT CANCER = ROUND-UP CAUSES CANCER Doesn't work like that, guys and gals.

    Remember the huge BREAST IMPLANTS CAUSE CANCER scare and the huge jury verdicts? Mayo Clinic: The FDA believes that women with breast implants that have textured surfaces have a very low but increased risk of developing BIA-ALCL. However, that doesn't mean that these implants cause BIA-ALCL.

    How about the hysteria over Saccharin (side note: When in College I had the pleasure of attending a lecture given by the individual that did the study)? The press took a small piece of the study out of context and hyped it into a national emergency. You would have to eat something on the order of 10lbs a day for 20yrs to have any effect on you and later it was found that the specific type of cancer, bladder, studied was not transferable to humans. That is, bladder cancer development in lab mice had no tie to humans.

    Aspartame Scare? Yeah, the study was so flawed that The FDA discounted it after review. I still don't like it's taste

    Sucralose? umm...same thing. FDA review found a flawed study that could not be repeated.

    How about the latest boogyman, Talcum Powder causes Ovarian Cancer and the billion dollar jury verdicts? " However, research from 2016 found that using talc on the genitals could increase the risk of ovarian cancer by 33 percent in participants. However, the study relied on personal interviews based on participants' memories, which may not be accurate. In other words, huge settlements based of emotions and faulty memories. Kinda sounds like the breast implant scare a little? Johnson and Johnson is a giant corporation. Faced with a crying female on the stand that evil company can afford a few bucks. Jackpot justice much like the false rape allegations. Hysterical females = instant guilt.

    How about focusing on things that will keep you healthy like exercise, moderate alcohol intake, no tobacco use, good diet, lots of sleep etc???
    Last edited by jonp; 06-23-2019 at 07:24 AM.
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  20. #60
    Boolit Master kenyerian's Avatar
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    I've used RU for years and the generic that is sold in Farm supply stores. Follow instructions. don't use on a windy day. and wear protective clothing. I have worried about for years and am very cautious with it. Back around 2000 I had a litter of Beagle puppies. I kept one and rehomed the other six. They all developed cancer and died before they were 4. I've always wondered what caused it. Had litters before and after and it never happened again. I did stop spraying around the kennels. Beagle puppies get into everything and they ran loose a lot so it could have been anything.

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