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Thread: Glyphosate - a carcinogen (or not)?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Ooh. Testy subject. I don't believe - by empirical evidence - using it according to the Mfg's label instructions is subjecting me to a "carcinogen". If it was a carcinogen, the MSDS for glyphosate would say so. That it says





    tells me the glyphosate salts are not the problem.
    Last edited by Land Owner; 05-22-2019 at 05:20 PM.
    If it was easy, anybody could do it.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sw45 View Post
    Then don't ever buy any products any where Piedmont. Don't drink your county or city water either.
    You'r right about that for sure, it makes little sense to forgo the relatively benign chemicals available to the home gardener then eat food from a store that has in all likelihood been farmed with far worse stuff than the homeowner can buy. About the only way a person can get by without ANY food contamination is to grow 100% of what they eat and do it as Piedmont says, however there is still all the other junk we are exposed to almost everyday in one way or another.


    On a side note about garden chemicals, I was just told of a neat trick this spring to cut back or even eliminate using Carbaryl (Sevin dust/spray), simply use Self-rising flour instead! I thought Huh??? how would that work? Well it seems the bugs eat the Self-rising flour (it MUST be Self-rising!) then the flour contacts the fluids in their bodies and begins to expand causing the little ba,,,,,,,,,err bugs to explode! I have been trying it on cucumber beetle on my cucumbers, pumpkins, etc and so far it seems to work like a charm, it's still way early yet but it sure looks promising.
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  3. #23
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
    I don't want any poisons anywhere near me or my food. NOTHING gets put on my garden. If the bugs eat some plants that is my tough luck. If there are "weeds" they get pulled, not poisoned.
    this works good when you have a 10 square foot garden and I applaud the organic farmers and am glad the market for organics is growing and giving a living wage to some small farmers----but---- try this on the 10 square mile fields that a real farmer has to have to make a living, it cant be done, the weeds would win and the population would starve.

    I have never thought roundup was safe and use all the precautions when mixing and spraying, but without it I would need 20 or so laborers just to get by on this place. most of the illness that has occurred could probably be traced back to something other than round up, like paraquat, ddt, and some of the other really mean chemicals. foxtoxin works great to fumigate a bin full of grain but if you get anywhere near the bin for a week after application you will get sick if you dont use proper ppe.
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  4. #24
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    This is a un study for what thats worth. No one will get out of this life alive. Pretty much anything used wrong or in excess will get you. And just because lawyers say its harmful don't mean squat to me. I bought a water filter because the county water tasted like bad. Recommended you check the water before installing so went on county website to check low and behold had to go buy a filter so i could hook up another filter. Got a letter from county saying if you have health problems check with your doctor before drinking. I use ru and will continue to. I remember when i was young parents had a produce business when parked across from life sciences used to get a white powder on everything. Come to find out it was kepone now look that one up and you can read about how it shut down a river and the Chesapeake bay.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I always blamed my Dad's lung cancer on Treflan myself. He would not allow us kids anywhere near it.

    I use a little round up here and there around the house. I'm smart enough to stay UP wind of the area I'm spraying, and to wash well after. I don't inhale it, sniff it, drink it.

    There are a lot of politics involved in the big chemical company's. Monsanto has the market pretty well cornered on roundup and roundup ready seed.

    IMO "good" farmers don't need it. But it does beat the living daylights out of walking 80 acre soybean fields pulling weeds and carrying all wild oats plants to the end where they were collected and burned. Dads farm was excepting some mustard and pigeon grass weed free before Fargo and Roundup came along.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    I always blamed my Dad's lung cancer on Treflan myself. He would not allow us kids anywhere near it.

    I use a little round up here and there around the house. I'm smart enough to stay UP wind of the area I'm spraying, and to wash well after. I don't inhale it, sniff it, drink it.

    There are a lot of politics involved in the big chemical company's. Monsanto has the market pretty well cornered on roundup and roundup ready seed.

    IMO "good" farmers don't need it. But it does beat the living daylights out of walking 80 acre soybean fields pulling weeds and carrying all wild oats plants to the end where they were collected and burned. Dads farm was excepting some mustard and pigeon grass weed free before Fargo and Roundup came along.
    Family farms a couple sections in central IL, walked a lot of beans as a teen. It was better than detassling corn!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I use 500 gallons of straight Roundup per year. Follow label directions. Use common sense. It is a safe product and Much safer than many of the herbicide alternatives we would be forced to use with out it. Conspiracy theory's abound and lawyers will continue to follow their noses to the money trail.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    Legal scam on Monsanto. Many herbicides in use - all say don't drink or bath with it. The real point is Monsanto has a lock on GMO seed that the UN doesn't like so they want to punish for GMO use. Ads on TV now say No GMO chickens (etc.) like YES, chickens are GMO - they have been breed to be layers or meat. Total ** by Bayer and UN. What do YOU call genetically breed dogs? GMO!!
    It’s not the same thing at all. When you breed two dogs they are just mixing different dog genes. That’s selective breeding. Genetic modification is when you artificially insert genes from a different species, or clip out a gene that is normally present. GMOs are things that could not be produced by natural breeding. You couldn’t cross pollinate soybeans to be glyphosate resistant. You have to actually edit their genes.

    If Roundup were a problem we would have known it before now. How many millions of gallons of the stuff have been sprayed already?
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldred View Post
    Ever since Round Up hit the market it has been stigmatized by the reputation of Agent Orange, whenever people saw any kind of herbicide the spectacle of, and an association with, Agent Orange was there either outright or subconsciously but folks ROUND UP IS NOT AGENT ORANGE! It is a completely different chemical and even if it wasn't Agent Orange itself was not the problem, the problems associated with Agent Orange were due to the contaminate it contained, this of course was the Dioxin which was not even supposed to be in the stuff. That matters little since Dioxin contaminated probably all of the Agent Orange that was manufactured.


    I am not saying Round Up is safe or not since like most everyone else I simply don't know but it was tested extensively and has been under more scrutiny than most ag chemicals over the years because of the irrational, and mostly subconscious, fear that it is like Agent Orange. Dangerous? Maybe, maybe not but it's NOT Agent Orange and just because Round Up is a herbicide does not make it similar to Agent Orange in risks.
    Also, from what I understand by talking to folks who actually were in Vietnam, Agent Orange was applied straight from the container. It was NOT diluted with water as per the instructions, and nobody bothered to make sure NO soldiers were present in the area before applying it. Just loaded into an airplane and then dumped on the forest. No one received ANY training on proper use and no one bothered to read the instructions.

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    It’s not the same thing at all. Exactly the same, difference is we see the results in animals quickly.
    I am a GMO product! From my relative's genetics.
    How about corn, a S.A. weed that was GMO'd into a food product? Try looking up Decalb. Modified corn seed. Go to the garden store and get those roses? GMOs.
    So your real problem is 'Man' is changing stuff in the lab? Ever read the label on your food to see what 'man' has added? Investigate how many nations have been saved by DDT - Roundup will probably go the same route. Yea, had forgotten about 2-4D that was to cause thin eggs (grain eaters) and fish kill. Because it was used improperly (same as potassium fertilizer and they took organo-Phosphates out of laundry soaps as it got flushed too)
    So we'll call it GEO or genetically engineered organisms? That better?
    So now we have a problem with some cancer therapy. Genetically engineered medication. What shall we do?
    Have a friend with Parkinson's they think was caused by exposure in Nam.
    Last edited by popper; 05-23-2019 at 08:35 PM.
    Whatever!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    Popper he's right, IT'S NOT THE SAME THING and it's not even close! In nature genetics modifies things through selective breeding but it has to be genes from the SAME KIND of organism, dogs to dogs, cat's to cat's and even people to people, etc but you can't mate a dog to a cat for example, they MUST be of the same species! With human modified GMO organisms it's not like that, genes are taken from totally different species such as fish genes in a mouse or even plant genes in animals in some cases but what is done can NEVER occur in nature! That's what the fuss is all about, these franken creatures are no longer just science fiction topics and are being done in ever increasing numbers. It may sound like a good idea to some folks to (for instance one I read about that was being considered) basically cross a vegetable with a fish (as weird as it sounds) by inserting the DNA from that fish so that the plant would grow a fish enzyme that would be toxic to certain bugs that feed on those plants, no way is that going to happen in nature!

    Personally I think it's as crazy as it sounds and scientists are messing with something that should be left to nature!
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  12. #32
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    First, folks complain about herbicides and insecticides that might cause cancer or make you glow in the dark or something, so scientists develop genetically modified hybrids to reduce the need for the bad guy chemicals, and folks still complain and raise a ruckus.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    As the old saying goes you could give some folks a bag full of money and they would complain about the color of the bag.

    But you're right and I don't know what the best answer is, however it would seem to me that we would be better off just using chemicals that can be controlled and stopped at any time if found to be dangerous rather than creating new genetically modified species of plants and animals that can reproduce in the environment with possible unforeseen and disastrous consequences that can't be controlled once it escapes.
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  14. #34
    Boolit Master 40-82 hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    One thing I do now, it is a heck of a lot better to use than the old 2-4-D the was used for years.
    2-4-D and 2-4-5-T were horrible! But touted as completely safe at the time. It is hard to know what and when to believe something when dealing with chemicals, since the amount of exposure, and the type of exposure, are so variable and individualistic in effect. I AM thankful for having RU as an alternative over the years. I have never used that much of it, as I only used it infrequently around the house for single-point applications, but I certainly felt it was a rather safe alternative as I used it.

    JMHO (not aimed at the people involved in this discussion): I find that people tend to react to herbicides, pesticides, and genetic engineering, with common fright out of step with reality. How are we going to feed the billions of people on earth when confronted with plant disease, bug infestations, and food spoilage, unless we have some weapons to fight back with. My mother-in-law used to rail on nearly constantly about herbicides and pesticides, while at the same time complaining about the corn worms, aphid infestations, blights, and canned foods of hers that spoiled before they could be eaten. We used Sevin on tomatoes when I was growing up, but washed the tomatoes very carefully before eating, and harvested when we could after nearly daily rain showers. Knowledge and care do go a long way to mitigating the use of chemicals.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    2,4,5T has been outlawed. It is no longer available anywhere that I know of. 2,4d is still available. Can be found at most farm and ranch type stores. 2,4d is for controlling broad-leaf weeds such as giant ragweed and dandelions. It is safe to use on corn, but do NOT use it on tomatoes, potatoes, peas, or green beans.

  16. #36
    Boolit Grand Master


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    No herbicides=no commercial vegetables, cotton, corn for feed, wheat for bread, etc. Hope everyone has a garden and slaughters their own pigs not to mention shear sheep for the wool.
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  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonp View Post
    No herbicides=no commercial vegetables, cotton, corn for feed, wheat for bread, etc. Hope everyone has a garden and slaughters their own pigs not to mention shear sheep for the wool.
    It really is as simple as that, sure if everyone wanted to do it the old way and get out in the garden for hours on end and manually pull weeds, hoe vegetables, physically pick bugs off certain crops, etc then maybe we could do without chemicals. As the saying goes, "I been there done that and bought the Tee shirt" and I know from experience when I growing up it's a full time job all spring, summer and into the fall with no time left to work another job, I spent many miserable hours when I was a kid hoeing the garden when I wanted to go fishing or some such so I know full well what's involved in trying to make do without pesticides! Not saying that's a bad way to live and I can look back on it without regret but I SERIOUSLY doubt many folks would be willing to do that these days, I know I certainly wouldn't want to! Besides doing it that way is so inefficient compared to modern chemical reliant methods I doubt there's enough farmland currently available to feed everyone even if every person was willing to do it that way.


    So if I may add a bit to the "no herbicide" statement you so correctly made it's basically "No chemicals/pesticides=no food in the grocery stores!
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  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy AllanD's Avatar
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    If you know ANYTHING about chemistry You understand that there is not all that much difference between commercial Insecticides & Defoliants and the basic research that also developed all of the deadly "war gasses" & Nerve agents

    They are ALL Organo-Phosphates

    I've walked away from a good paying job where I found out they were working with similar chemicals...
    Plus they were working with Fluorine... (which I will not be anywhere near)

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    It’s not the same thing at all. Exactly the same, difference is we see the results in animals quickly.
    I am a GMO product! From my relative's genetics.
    How about corn, a S.A. weed that was GMO'd into a food product? Try looking up Decalb. Modified corn seed. Go to the garden store and get those roses? GMOs.
    So your real problem is 'Man' is changing stuff in the lab? Ever read the label on your food to see what 'man' has added? Investigate how many nations have been saved by DDT - Roundup will probably go the same route.
    It’s not my problem. I don’t have an issue with it.

    But you are still wrong because I’ll bet you don’t have any honeybee genes, only human ones. You can’t selectively breed across the vast majority of species through mating. You can’t mate algae with elephants, but you can insert algae genes into any species you want through gene splicing. GMO starts well beyond where selective breeding ends.
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  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    A little off topic but I feel relevant. Remember the aspirin factory Clinton Tommahawk'd? Supposedly chemical weapon factory (Bayer) and WE don't really know what they were making. Like most chemical processes, doesn't take much to 'change' the process to a different chemical compound.
    Just remember, WHO is effectively a political arm of the UN. IMHO, the Ca guy is an idiot, didn't take any precautions and like a good liberal, blames somebody else.
    Whatever!

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