The Value of "Tactical Training."

[W.R.Buchanan]

I want to take some time to discuss the value of "Tactical Training" when it comes to using a shotgun.

I have been an avid shotgunner for most of my life. However my shooting was all hunting, and primarily Dove Hunting.

I was relatively safe most of the time, but looking back from where I'm at now, I was not really all that safe unless I was completely alone. Yes people didn't even know they were in danger while in my armed presence. To be fair I was in just as much Jeopardy from them, as they were from me, simply because none of us were really all that safe.

We were just lucky!

When I started going to Front Sight in 2006 everything changed. We started out with Pistols but I soon found out that it all translated to long guns as well, and when we went to rifle classes we didn't have to be told to keep our fingers out of the trigger guard cuz that had already been drilled into us.

The Shotgun classes are more like Rifle classes but are seriously more fun, because you soon find out that you have much more raw power in your hands than with a .223 carbine.

The thing that makes these classes worth while is that they not only teach you gun handling,,,

They drill it into you!

You would be surprised just how much there is to know about running the different styles of guns, and the different things you can do with them. But once you are familiar with the basics, and can actually perform them at will, the difference it will make in the field is amazing.

This is not something that you just go do, and Nirvana follows you home. It actually takes willingness to learn and practice to develop the Muscle Memory you need to be at your best.

I don't even want to hear about "I'm old and Set in my Ways and can't learn" Big Ship!, better than half the people (Men and Women) in our last Rifle and Shotgun Classes were as old or older than me. (69) Some people have a little more trouble getting up and down. (I don't do prone or sitting positions any more because it takes me longer to get back up than it does to assume the position.) I don't need to do it for a class, and I can do it if I really need to, but I do all my shooting from the offhand position in these classes. Mainly cuz I don't feel like rolling in the dirt.

The best reason why you should look seriously at getting trained is because it will make you a better shooter all around. It will also prepare you for the very real possibility that we need to defend our freedom here at home. Things are getting crazy in DC and you never know if they will pull off a coup or not. If they do, there will be a fight. This is something we all need to consider.

Being prepared for any eventuality is a good thing. Not having to use it is even better. Hopefully the insanity will dissipate soon.

There are several guys I know of here at Castboolits who have gotten this type of training and it would be a good thing if they could chime in and share their experiences and how they benefited from the experience.

Randy

[slownsteady22]

In my line of work we are required to be shotgun and pistol/rifle trained.
Those classes were just basic safety and then qualification. I really learned more from the room, hallway, and stair clearing training, and this was done with non operational weapons. When going through this training it really stressed the importance of having a plan and being prepared to act forcefully and immediately

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[W.R.Buchanan]

Some may think that Tactical Training is all about combat. However it is primarily about "Gun Handling." The main difference between Combat and Hunting is the "Intended Targets," not the gun handling.

Gun Handling is the basics that you apply to be able to get a gun into action,,, whatever that may be.

Home Defense kind of falls under the heading of Combat, however there are other considerations that don't really apply to the battlefield. But in the home they really do. Things like, whats on the other side of that door or wall. Where are your loved ones located. What kind of ammo is in the gun or is it even loaded in the first place? Will it shoot thru walls? Will it shoot thru your neighbor's walls?

Gun handling is the running and manipulation of the gun. How you load and unload it, and how you reload it. How you bring the gun into action. How you carry the gun. How you present the gun to a target.

Firing the gun consists of three elements,,, Sight Alignment, Sight Picture, and Trigger Control. "Gun Handling" is everything else that got you to the point where you could do that.

All of these skills have to be learned, as they affect every aspect of you using a gun for any purpose, and that certainly means more than just Combat use.

If you are primarily a hunter, are you aware of the direction your muzzle is pointing at all times, or just sometimes? Have you been covering your hunting buddies and not even knowing that you are doing it Are you aware of the condition of your gun at all times, did you actually check, or did you just assume the gun loaded a round into the chamber when you loaded it? Is the safety on or off? When do you take the safety off? When should it be on?

If you use a pump gun and you just fired a shot, did you rack the slide, or did you forget? Do you realize the gun is empty if you didn't?

Do you know what to do if you find that the gun goes click instead of bang?

Here's a big one,,, What do you do if the gun malfunctions? There are several types of malfunctions and all require a different response. Can you recognize the difference between the three types of malfunctions?

Here's another big one,,, Did you sight the gun in or pattern it? Point being do you know where it shoots? With shotguns with rifle sights they get sighted in with whatever ammunition you plan on using and the sights get adjusted so that POA = POI. If the gun only has a bead sight then you need to know where it needs to be aimed in order to yield a precise hit on a target, and this is almost never where you think it is.

Lots more to this than thinking you are going to be Johnny Ninja Warfighter after 2-4 days of training. It is about knowing what you are doing, and when dealing with guns, it is a good idea that you know what you are doing at all times... Right?

This is why everyone needs to get trained. A 2 hour Hunter Safety Course isn't enough, you need more intense training that will drill the basics into your head. A 2 or 4 day course at an Accredited Firearms Training School is the answer. And you'll be better for it.

Randy

[Gregorious]

Agree,

Several years ago, I took a Combat Shotgun class at TDI, Tactical Defense Institute in West Union, Ohio. John Benner and his other instructors taught the class over two days.

https://www.tdiohio.com/tactical-shotgun/

Biggest takeaway was how accurate the plain bead is when shooting slugs.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I forgot to mention that Blasting off a bunch of cheap Walmart ammo at steel targets is alot of fun and very satisfying as well.

As you progress thru the class you will see your skills at running your gun improve dramatically. The next time you go shooting after that class you will notice that your gun handling is completely different than what if was before.

You are also more confident, and since you aren't thinking about loading or unloading the gun you will shoot better.

Some of you might have noticed over the years that I harp on the subject of training alot. The reason for this is that I have seen how much it has benefited me. It takes me along time and alot of repetitions to learn anything new, I have know this since I was 6 and saw how long it took me to learn to ride a bike. I also figured out that when my Uncle taught me the basics of how to ride a bike, that I was able progress quickly and keep up with my friends.

Nobody is born knowing how to do much of anything!

This progressed to when I was learning to drive a stick shift, I sat in my car at night and dry practiced shifting clutching, double clutching, and Heel and Toeing the brake and throttle. We drove everything like sports racing cars even though everything we had was junk, ranging from a 49 Plymouth Coupe to a 57 Chevy Panel Wagon. Pure Junk held together with duct tape and bailing wire and I drove the snot out of these ***'s. I should have been killed a hundred times but I got good instead because of the practice. I also learned it was better to be lucky than good, which I still rely on to this day.

We didn't have Driving Schools and if we would have I probably would have been a F1 Driver as that is what I really wanted.

Shooting schools didn't come along until the 90's and my Military training consisted of firing exactly 60 rounds thru a worn out M16 during quali, and was virtually pointless. Every shot from that gun went thru the target sideways and they told us the bullets were supposed to tumble, I told them they were *** and got to do push ups for the remainder of the day. Got 59 of 60 in the zone and was good to go with my Marksmanship Ribbon. This was because I already knew how to shoot, not because of the training which was virtually non existent.

Now we are blessed with schools for virtually everything. My son bought a new C7 Z06 Corvette for $125K! and Chevy was kind enough to give him a free pass to the Corvette Driving School in Pahrump NV. Prior to that school I didn't even want to be in the car with him as he had no idea what he was doing, and he was driving a Rocket Ship.

After the school he was competent and could drive the wheels off that car. They basically trained him to be a Racing Driver in 2 days by teaching the fundamentals of Setting up a Corner, Braking Shifting and Acceleration. This was stuff I learned by trial and error and reading magazines back in the 60's, yet he learned it in 2 days in a school! I might add that he was second fastest in the class of 20 people all driving the schools new Corvettes.. He also learned how to run the car which has way more stuff going on that your average grocery getter.

Once again,,, nobody was born knowing how to do this stuff. You have to learn, and the best way to learn is to be taught, and the best way to be taught is in a specialized school that is teaching in an intense format. Basics First, then lots of repetitions to drive it home. Then you go home and practice !

Once you decide that you actually want to be better than most, you will have a good reason to go get trained.

Oh, and you ain't too old to get trained. It will give you a reason to go out and do something.

If you are satisfied with mediocrity, then enjoy your couch, you probably already know how to do that.

Randy

[spoon]

Agree with the above. I went through 3 weeks of motor school (police motorcycle) and I came out a much better car driver. Shooting schools (the right ones) will give you the knowledge to improve on how the gun and human can work together.

[rbuck351]

I spent 20 yrs as an Alaskan Correctional Officer. We used both the AR15 and the Rem 870. After my probation and becoming a COII I trained and qualified as a Range Officer. The training with the AR was pretty limited basically learning how it worked and clearing malfunctions. The 870 training was quite good and we got a full week of training/requal every year with lots of range time. Lots of practice with loading, reloading from side saddle, ejection port reloads, select slug drills, running dry, malfunction drills, press checks for condition and so forth. We didn't get much training on tactics, moving and firing, firing from cover or different positions but I could sure operate the 870 after 20 years. Lots of fun and time well spent. Way too many folks get a gun for protection and don't practice and don't get training and think they are going to be ready for a gunfight.

My favorite is a couple of friends of my wife whose husbands have bought them hand guns for protection. Both have said they have shot them once and keep them in the safe or somewhere safe.

[dverna]

I took a class at Front Sight. Very worthwhile.

You will learn a lot, and things that may save your life.

It was easy to pick out the people who thought they were good until they had to perform under pressure. And these targets were not shooting back.

My guess is over 95% of shooters are incompetent. Not just in tactical skills but putting rounds on target under stress. Luckily for them, they will never be tested. Front Sight will test you.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Most police officers, back in the 80s at least, really could have used serious training. Assisted at a local school, learned a lot, and when we visited local LEO's ranges to show them what was possible, cleaned their clock regularly in friendly contests.

Shotgun is a LOT easier to hit things with at distance under stress or when moving, for certain. Lets hope all of us train & none of us NEED the training!

[W.R.Buchanan]

After 13 Pistol Classes, 6 rifle and 4 shotgun classes at Front Sight I have some idea what I am doing. However that doesn't mean I'm ready to quit as I have also found just how volatile these skills are and how quickly they evaporate. I dry practice alot (relatively speaking) And I see my Draw and Presentation going down hill after a month or so. Rifle and shotgun skills not so fast as they are very similar in nature.

The last time we went a few weeks ago, we did a 2 day Practical Rifle course which essentially 2 days of Combat Carbine training. Shooting from 15 to 100 yards... I sucked outright! I managed to graduate the course but I was having serious problems at 100 yards which is hardly a long distance. The course has been dumbed down over the years and now the farthest range you shoot in this class is 100 yards. It used to be 400 yards and then 200. I actually did better at 200 than I do at 100 now however part of the problems I had were with the trigger on my SCR which has about 3/16" of Creep and no real wall before let off. I can fix that. I have ran that course with my Mini 14, Kel-Tec SU16, and AR, and now twice with the SCR.

The pistol classes were first done with a CZ 40P until I got wise and bought a Glock 35, then DG'd the class with a Glock 21 SF 45 ACP. It took me 11 times to DG that class! I have seen new guys do it the first time.

DG = Distinguished Graduate or dropping less than 12 points -3 for miss outside the A zones body and head, or -5 for complete miss outside body or off target. Same target and scoring for Rifle.

Shotgun is slightly different even though many of the things they teach in Rifle carry over to Shotgun. I ran the first 3 classes with my M500, and it took a while to get the gun sussed out to where it didn't beat the snot out of me. 1st course was brutal and I looked it afterwards, Second time was better but still needed work on the setup, both 2 day classes with 250 rounds each. I was beat up pretty good.

Third class was 4 days and the gun was great and I didn't even come home with a mark on my shoulder, shooting 500+ rounds with shorts and a tee shirt! I shot 13 in the last test I took with a pump gun IE -1 over DG and I was bummed. I almost had it, but was slow on some of the multiple target tests.

Most recent class was 2 days with the A5 and I already knew what is coming and I can DG that class with the A5 easily. You only get to take a Skills Test in a 4 day class or "Skill Builder Class" which is more intense shooting with less instruction and more shooting to prep you for the test.

They aren't teaching you Tactical Skills, they are teaching you gun handling so that when you are being shot at you can concentrate on returning fire, and utilizing cover, instead of running the gun and with shotguns most important of all,,, Keeping it Loaded! I can dump the 8 aimed rounds in my A5 in about 5 seconds. It takes alot longer to put them back in!

So what does this training do for me? It also makes me a safer person to be around when guns are present.

It also gives me the confidence to know that I can beat 95+% of opponents I might go up against if push comes to shove which makes me better able to defend my home and loved ones. Also in today's climate the possibility of armed confrontation is growing every day. More crazies hatching every day and you see it on TV Way to Frequently!

For that other 5%, I'll have to rely on luck to keep me in the game.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

A current perfect example of someone who was under trained is the Sheriff Deputy charged with protecting the kids at the high school in Florida. He did nothing but hide when it was time to do his job. This was solely because he was scared to go in because he knew his skills were lacking, and he was a Coward because of it.

He was indicted yesterday on a bunch of felony counts and is looking at 97 years in jail. They also should have indicted that Sheriff in Broward County as he was the reason why the other guy couldn't perform.

I don't know if going to jail is the correct action for the Deputy, pretty sure that knowing what he did, or more properly didn't do, haunts him everyday. But the Sheriff that tried to turn it around on the NRA definitely needs Corrective Action.

Cops carry guns everyday. They, ( in most cases) seldom actually shoot them.

In my opinion all LEO's should be required to do a full day of range time with time pressure every month. IE: Drilling, Drilling, Drilling.
And that includes the Office People as well or anyone on the force who carries a gun.

Common sense dictates that anyone who carries a gun for a living needs to be very proficient with the use of that weapon.

When I know for a fact that I,,, Mr. John Q Citizen, can beat 95+% of the Police Officers on the job today because of the training I've gotten over the last 13 years, it begs the question. Why don't they get the same level of training? And Costs and Funding are not appropriate answers !!!

Here's another tid bit for you to chew on. If you have a Concealed Carry Permit, you need to be getting training as frequently as is possible for you. At least a trip to Front Sight twice a year for a skill builder Pistol class!

I realize that many people can't do this. But there is no reason why you can't shoot a box of shells from the holster at least once a month to maintain Muscle Memory.

If you don't, you are falling into the same class as the Sheriffs Deputy in Florida. That class is called "Knowingly Incompetent!" And that is a sad place to be.

Randy

[rking22]

Florida deputy is a coward, training will not fix that!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Good Point! But he was a coward because he knew he couldn't prevail.

Fear of Failure and Fear of Death can only be over come by Confidence.

Randy

[Drm50]

Finding a shotgun that shots to the point of aim with bead is a cherry. I've shot a lot of slugs, made dozens of slug guns and shot many more factory shotguns. A good slug gun, smooth bore will shoot into 3" at 100yds benched. Run of the mill guns usually at least twice that. Adjustable sights allow most guns to be sighted in. In shooting slugs in competition guns with solid frames have the edge. The new rifled barrel guns with sabots will outshoot my smooth bores but I never got into them because I wasn't having any trouble killing deer with my smooth bore. Now since Ohio has rifle deer my sluggers are gathering dust. Unless a revolution occurs I won't be shooting slugs anymore. You want training take one in the brush deer hunting. The deer don't tell you when they are going to jump.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I learned how to handle a gun as a child by my Grandfather. By age 10 I was an expert with his Winchester '94 30-30 although the 170 grain rounds beat me up pretty good. By 12 I could run a 100 straight birds with his Browning Auto.

At 21 I joined the NYCPD and underwent some serious training at the Police Academy. It was six months long and 8 hours a day. It included a solid 2 week segment of revolver training and qualifications. Additionally we spent at least one hour a day in the basement range practicing and practicing.

However once we graduated and went out into the field we only received a full day of shooting and lectures one day a year at the Rodman's Neck range in the Bronx. And then a half day in a local PD indoor range. We fired 300 rounds at the outdoor range and only 50 on the half day range. I would hope they have improved the program since I retired in '84. In my time we used one caliber .38 Special and one round the LSWC 158 gr Remington in a nickled case.

Sometime after I retired they went to Glocks among others in 9MM, .40 S&W and 45 ACP. I suppose there are a few old timers still carrying S&W's Model 10 4" bbl .38 Rem Special. Mine cost me $43.75 when I bought it in '64. I still carry 24/7 365 everywhere when awake. Either at home or elsewhere I am packing since at 77 I can no longer defend myself with my body but with a firearm I expect to survive.

A few years ago a friend of mine was gifted with a pair of tickets for the four day shotgun course at Front Sight in Pahrump, NV. We went together and had a ball. However the school did not like my Winchester '97 Pump Shotgun as it does not have a safety and they made me keep it in the car and they provided a Remington 870 for my use. Close enuf as I also have a Mossberg 500 along with the trench gun. The training was excellent with intelligent and devoted instructors. There were attendees there from all over the country and it was just great. I had to unlearn some habits and learn some new ones but I survived and learned a lot. Nothing beats training and practice.

[Petander]

I'm all for training,"tactical" or not.

Also interestingly,the more I shoot clays (trap,sporting),the better I am with rifles @ moving targets. We have a traditional moving moose,natural size target going @ 100 meters with 308 usually. Lots of competitions. The same with a smaller wild boar @ 50 meters with 22LR.

I shoot so much long range bench that those moving things keep me in shape. Seems to translate in pistols as well,sort of. Better keep moving.

Every gun type needss its regular basic handling practise of course.

There's nothing better than getting your scores higher than ever at an older age.

[cas]

There's many other ways to look at it. I've heard people call it the gun version "fantasy camp", trying to knock it. but even viewed that way, so what? If people are enjoying themselves, good for them.

I used to wonder about so many of the people who attended such classes at my range, why they were doing it and what if anything they were actually getting out of it? Then I realized, around here, unless you're a member of said range (and most aren't), or you're shooting competitively in action shooting sports (and most aren't), taking these classes is the only time these people will get to use their guns NOT sitting at a bench, firing slowly at one of our public ranges. Since anything BUT that is new and unusual, those classes must be really fun for them. So hey, have at it, God bless.