Lee 459-500-3r data

[john.k]

you can reduce the drag of any grooved bullet by eliminating the grooves........about a 10% reduction at subsonic velocities.....so a smooth side paper patched bullet is indicated at 1 mile.......even then ,its gonna be down to walking speed.

[Thundermaker]

interesting project yer pursuing, thundermaker. i hope it doesn't become a don quixote quest for ya. as to that lee bullet, and as i've posted here about it, i found that its design leaves much to be desired for consistent 200 yard accuracy let alone long range accuracy. its spire point and limited bearing surface create an instability, even with a pedersoli 1:18 twist. true, for 20-30 bucks it's a cheap mould (that many have found it not so concentric), but i would suggest that there are many other well proven long distance .45 bullet moulds to chose that will save you time, rather than money, from the get-go. this will be extremely important for a bullet that's required to travel 760 yards beyond the usual extreme long distance of 1000 yards. just rendering my opinions to yer questions. good luck.

Your opinions actually pertain to the question and include reasoning and experience, instead of just, "haha, good luck, noob!". As such, they are appreciated.

I've considered the issue of bearing surface. That's why I've shied away from designs like the "NASA" bullet. I'm thinking I may be better off with the saeco 881 (govn't bullet) and going from there. If I need more velocity, there's always 3f.

I'm going to leave paper patching alone for now. That's a whole different learning curve.

[Edward]

Your opinions actually pertain to the question and include reasoning and experience, instead of just, "haha, good luck, noob!". As such, they are appreciated.

I've considered the issue of bearing surface. That's why I've shied away from designs like the "NASA" bullet. I'm thinking I may be better off with the saeco 881 (govn't bullet) and going from there. If I need more velocity, there's always 3f.

I'm going to leave paper patching alone for now. That's a whole different learning curve.

Lyman Postell will get you there (reasonable cost and predictable performance)/just sayin Ed

[Don McDowell]

Hitting a target 3 times the size of the one you're comptemplating at 1 mile with any sort of regularity is going to be a problem with the 45-70. One of the mini groove money bullets 530 grains would be the first place to try. They do require wiping between shots no matter what the distance.
From experience I can tell you if you're shooting with a soul sight on the rear you'll need one capable of giving another 3 inches minimum of staff over the setting for 1000 yards. Something with lots of windage is going to be required as well, as the natural spin drift of a bullet is about 2 inches right at 800. Start with a mechanical zero the gives about 6 inches left of a center hold at 200,in a no wind situation, and go from there. The wind will not be your friend at 1 mile.

[rfd]

the 1 mile quest is super daunting with any cartridge let alone one from the 19th century cartridge. if i were to have any ghost of a chance with a .45-70 i'd go paper patched, with a BACO Jim443530E slick and stuff at least 83 grains of swiss 1-1/2f to 3f under it. that will turn a .45-70 into a virtual .45-90. gonna need all the horsepower possible for 1700 yards. i'd also be realistic about the mark to be hit - at best i'd be lucky to hit an SUV let a lone a sewer cover.

[Don McDowell]

So far the only cartridges that have been successful at the Wasserburger mile , have been the 45-110, and the 50-90. The big 50 was pushing a 750 gr grease groove bullet with 126 grains of powder. The 110 accomplished it with both grease groove and patched.

[Lead pot]

Don they shot at a very large target at the mile shoot. He is shooting at a 2' square. I think even my .50-2.5 would have my ammo box empty and would not hit it if I could even see the little dot at a mile.

Attachment 242073

[Don McDowell]

Kurt it was Randy E that won the match one year with his 50. They recovered one of his bullets stuck in part of the target at an angle well over 45 degrees. Kenny got it 9 times at one of the matches with his 110. I don't remember whether they shot 30 or 40 rounds. The spotters in the bunker about 300 yards in front of the target reported most misses were either way short or way wide to one side or the other.

[Lead pot]

Don that is understandable shooting over those sand dunes when the sun is blazing down.
I have never tried the mile but I shot at a full sized iron buffalo at 1585 yards using a 485 gr bullet with my .44-77 using the barrel sights over the Nebraska sand dunes in some pretty good wind and it took about 4-5 shots to get on him holding on dark grass patches about 4 targets off and it was hard seeing the target over the barrel sights. I still had enough elevation left on the Lawrence ladder sight to reach the 200 yards needed for a mile. If I'm still in the neighborhood when the Badlands match is on I will shoot the mile match they run.

[Don McDowell]

Kenny's match there's really not much for sand dunes, it's mostly just pasture. The firing line is up on a ridge and the target is across a pretty big draw.
Dan's match is something that's been on my bucket list for a long time. Was thinking this might be the year, but with the rescheduling of the Wyoming State match, looks like Dan's will have to wait another year.

[Lead pot]

Here is the target we used. That Buff had a rather large hump But when you read about the hide hunters making long range hits on Buffalos it's very doable.

Attachment 242089

[country gent]

For what your wanting to do I would recommend testing several bullets in the rifle. If you only want to buy one mould buy beg or borrow some to test. Find the best performing bullet in Your rifle. Buy the mould and cast up good consistant slugs. Then chronograph the loads at 2 points and use a Ballistics program to figure the actual BC. I have found BCs to be "optimistic" for many bullets both jacketed and cast. Also BCs change with the velocity. In this way you have the most accurate BC to work with when figuring your trajectory and sight settings. I have a lab radar and its very good for getting the 2 velocities for figuring BC on a given bullet since it gives 5 readings from muzzle to 200 yds on the same shot.

Wind, light, velocity spreads, weather, your physical shape on a given day all are going to have a big effect on this. reading wind over a mile is going to be a big job in itself. Light when shooting Iron sights will affect size of bull and shape. Mirage again will be a factor to deal with.