Enfield no.4 conversion to 45ACP

[Larry Gibson]

Has anyone used a Argentine 1891 mauser action for conversion to 45 acp?. Probably use it as a single shot at first. Already has the correct size bolt face. Just wondering as I have a couple actions and cut down stocks I managed to squirrel away over the years. Have about 4 with bad barrels that I need to take off before the weather starts getting too hot to work in the garage. Usually cut the ring part on the barrel until it barely remains and usually the barrel comes off with a pipe wrench. Frank

The M91 and a couple variations of '93 - '98 Mausers won't work for conversion to 45 ACP. With the Mauser's having the locking lugs up front there is too much of a totally unsupported jump from the magazine to the chamber mouth. With Mausers, for proper reliable feeding, the cartridge rim must be picked up and held securely by the extractor and bolt face prior to the cartridge leaving the magazine. The bolt face must have the cartridge guide on the left side and the extractor must be shaped correctly for this to occur.

The SMLE's on the other hand have lock lugs at the rear of the bolt so the 45 ACP cartridge is already started into the chamber before it is released from the magazine. Feeding is much easier and more reliable in the SMLE type action. Also a new hole can be drilled and tapped farther forward on the action's side for the ejector screw. Then ejection is quicker with less bolt throw.

[Larry Gibson]

BTw fellas whats the situation with using harder cast bullets in auto cartridges and type of crimping?

I've not found crimping (roll crimping) to be needed at all. The 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth and the barrel should be installed and headspaced so it does. The barrel is pre-chambered and headspace is accomplished with a barrel collar same as Savage 110/112 rifles. In the M98 conversion the extractor will hold the rim/cartridge back but not so much in the SMLE action. I use 45 ACP loads that have been taper crimped just enough to straighten out the case mouth flair so they will still headspace on the case mouth. Even with the heaviest of loads and 245 gr cast bullets there has been no movement of the bullet in the case from recoil. A roll crimp is neither needed or used.

[Texas by God]

Unless a repeater is needed, a stubbed single barrel shotgun would be easiest. My BIL FOUND 2000 rounds of .45ACP reloads(in ammo cans) by a dumpster by the Res entrance. We shot a few in his Ballester and they are ok.
He really wants a .45acp single shot now since he has shot my 44-40!

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[JoeJames]

About finished with my project - scrap Golden State Arms cast 03A3 receiver, Volunteer Carbine 45 acp barrel, modified 03A3 stock, Rhineland Arms conversion for 98 Mauser.

[Reverend Al]

I've always loved the looks of the original English Lee Enfield DeLisle Carbine in .45 ACP from WW II. They can be duplicated with either a functioning or imitation (Canadian legal) integrally suppressed barrel like the originals, but it needs to be done by someone that has some machinist / gunsmithing skills. Good luck with your project and let us know how you make out.

[Reverend Al]

[Texas by God]

Thanks for that, Rev.
Outstanding!

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[samari46]

Larry, saw the post by Reverend Al and that pretty clearly showed why the Lee Enfield was the better choice rather using a 1891 action. Magazine is much closer to both the feed ramp and chamber. Frank

[303Guy]

I would be quite happy with a De Lisle carbine clone.

[Larry Gibson]

The Rhineland conversion magazine adapter positions the 45 ACP magazine to the front of the magazine well. That way it feeds very similar, as noted, to the De Lisle Carbine. It also uses a standard M1911 magazine catch so no additional alteration to magazines is needed. Thus the magazines are still usable in M1911 handguns.

[mickbr]

Thanks again Larry! Reverned Al, nice pictures, if I could use suppressors for hunting I would try and get that built.

Well I am about to get cracking with this. The job is being done by a gunsmith who has done several before. One thing is I am adding decent barrel to the kit, I can trade the other one in to recoup some costs on the new one. Reason for this is possibly get some accuracy advantages, I'll know the bore dia and condition exactly,and increasing length.

Still stuck on what barrel length to go for. My aims are the small loads in the load books, the 4-6 grain type thing for cast loads and the 6-7 grain type thing for jacketed bullets. There aren't going to be too loud anyway I don't think, but having not shot a 16" carbine I can't know for sure... This is to be my 'bloop gun' as outpost calls it, for shooting pigs and pests at close range with subsonics and minimal upset to farms and my dogs ears(lol).

I was thinking 22" should get the noise down a little, also add some velocity to cast bullets, and 'maybe' not lose too much speed for jacketed bullets compared to a pistol barrel?

What do you folks reckon? 20,22? or mick get a life it wont make enough difference, just build the darn rifle already

[303Guy]

I would think go with the 22" barrel. It won't make anything worse and it will reduce muzzle blast plus put the muzzle blast (what's left of it) further from your ears. A longer sight radius won't do any harm either. If you then find it too long, you can always shorten it later.

[john.k]

ive done a couple,and a good tip is to do the bolt first,then you can adjust barrel fit to get things in whack....if you can get all the plan dimensions exact,then it will fit Ok,but I was doing it by eye,and didnt even have a drawing..like I do everything.

[mickbr]

Thanks fellas. 303 guy I was thinking similar about the sight radius, 22" will make it a little better to use.

The barrel is probably going to be lothar-walther, can anyone weigh in as to whether these dimensions are good for jacketed and cast bullets ultimately?
From the website

Calibre 45ACp/45Colt, Chrome moly
Twist 1:16"
Bore : .442"
Groove dia: .450"
Grooves : 6

Im thinking .450 barrel will cast pretty well with .452 bullets right, 2 extra thou? Is a barrel that tight okay with jacketed projectiles usually stated as .451 by the manufacturer?

Not trying to turn it into a bench rest gun of course but an accuracy advantage would be nice

[john.k]

Those not familiar with the SMLE,remember the bolt head has to clock.....so the threads dont carry any load,the shoulder does...This means if you miss the correct clock,you will need to go a full thread further,less a little...........this is the reason for leaving the barrel until the bolt is right..............if the bolt isnt shortened,then none of this is relevant.

[mickbr]

Hi John, thanks the gunsmith says he has done a couple dozen including selling finished units to a gunstore. he orders the barrels in advance. I am in Australia also btw. Just realised I didn't put it in the profile! Have you heard of T-bone Shipwrighting? He bought the last run of units from Richard at special interest arms and imported them.

[Outpost75]

Thanks fellas. 303 guy I was thinking similar about the sight radius, 22" will make it a little better to use.

The barrel is probably going to be lothar-walther, can anyone weigh in as to whether these dimensions are good for jacketed and cast bullets ultimately?
From the website

Calibre 45ACp/45Colt, Chrome moly
Twist 1:16"
Bore : .442"
Groove dia: .450"
Grooves : 6

Im thinking .450 barrel will cast pretty well with .452 bullets right, 2 extra thou? Is a barrel that tight okay with jacketed projectiles usually stated as .451 by the manufacturer?

Not trying to turn it into a bench rest gun of course but an accuracy advantage would be nice

Those are standard dimensions for .45 ACP barrels. The Green Mountain Gunsmith Special raw blanks are inexpensive and follow those specs. I used one on my .45 ACP and it stabilizes Accurate 45-290H (290-grain FN) bullets at the lowest velocity which will reliably exit the 20-inch barrel, about 600 fps.

They also make a 1:32" twist .45 Colt Cowboy blank which gives better accuracy with factory jacketed and light bullets at high velocity than the quick pistol twist. http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/bx45c-2...ned-bbl-blank/ Factory or GI hardball is very accurate in the 1:32", but not heavier bullets. Depends on what you want to do.

[Preacher Jim]

93 mauser conversion with homemade stock. shoots good but was a rear to set up to feed

[mickbr]

Those are standard dimensions for .45 ACP barrels. The Green Mountain Gunsmith Special raw blanks are inexpensive and follow those specs. I used one on my .45 ACP and it stabilizes Accurate 45-290H (290-grain FN) bullets at the lowest velocity which will reliably exit the 20-inch barrel, about 600 fps.

They also make a 1:32" twist .45 Colt Cowboy blank which gives better accuracy with factory jacketed and light bullets at high velocity than the quick pistol twist. http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/bx45c-2...ned-bbl-blank/ Factory or GI hardball is very accurate in the 1:32", but not heavier bullets. Depends on what you want to do.

Outpost75 thanks and for answering my PM too. So if I wanted to push this into 460 rowland territory at times aka 230 grains at 1300-1400fps etc, the 1:16 is not going to stabilize ? Or did you mean the much lighter bullets such as 165-185 grain etc?

[Outpost75]

Outpost75 thanks and for answering my PM too. So if I wanted to push this into 460 rowland territory at times aka 230 grains at 1300-1400fps etc, the 1:16 is not going to stabilize ? Or did you mean the much lighter bullets such as 165-185 grain etc?

A 16" twist will stabilize a 230-grain bullet at 1300-1400 fps, but 100 yard group size will be about double what you would get with good bullets of that weight and velocity from the 1:32" twist.

But if you want to shoot 260-290-grain bullets at the lowest velocity which leaves the barrel, with only air rifle like noise, not requiring a suppressor, then get the 1:16" twist.

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