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Thread: ATF Annual inspection reveals new regulation on inlne muzzleloaders

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcslotcar View Post
    Guess assault M/L are next. When was the last time a M/L was used in a crime?
    1775...when that gang from across the pond came looking for trouble.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    Sounds like your getting the run around,Hope you straighten them out!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I'm not buying this, on many levels.

    First, the form you posted says 1997. Unless we have been ignoring the law for 22 years, that's strike one.

    Two, there is NO mention of it anywhere online. People would be in an uproar about something like this.

    Three, this wouldn't stop anything, and the BATFE knows it. If this were to come into law worded as that is, every inline manufacturer would begin selling rifles with a nipple breech plug. A 209 primer breech plug is $20.

    Four, I just went onto Midway USA. I can still buy an inline rifle, and have it shipped to my door. It even says next day shipping.

    On top of all of that, they keep using that 1898 as a cutoff year. They state "Primers are not an antique ignition system, and are ammunition for firearms subject to regulation."

    Primers are not ammunition #1
    #2, both Boxer and Berdan primers were invented in the 1860's...

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I'm not buying this, on many levels.

    First, the form you posted says 1997. Unless we have been ignoring the law for 22 years, that's strike one.

    Two, there is NO mention of it anywhere online. People would be in an uproar about something like this.

    Three, this wouldn't stop anything, and the BATFE knows it. If this were to come into law worded as that is, every inline manufacturer would begin selling rifles with a nipple breech plug. A 209 primer breech plug is $20.

    Four, I just went onto Midway USA. I can still buy an inline rifle, and have it shipped to my door. It even says next day shipping.

    On top of all of that, they keep using that 1898 as a cutoff year. They state "Primers are not an antique ignition system, and are ammunition for firearms subject to regulation."

    Primers are not ammunition #1
    #2, both Boxer and Berdan primers were invented in the 1860's...
    You beat me to waving the B.*. flag.

    On a side note you can do this https://money.cnn.com/2017/09/21/new...der/index.html

    If I remember correctly these was part of the stuff that happened when the Henry Ball designed Savage 10ML1 was being introduced. It used the standard action so they had be go thru an FFL. The solution was the Savage 10ML2 and the BATF claimed the above notice for awhile. It was rescinded a little later.

    Must be the same agent that claims airsoft rifles are easily converted to full auto centerfire rifles.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 05-15-2019 at 12:40 AM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  5. #25
    Boolit Master


    tomme boy's Avatar
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    He is flat out WRONG! They already took care of this as the TC guns, Savage, Traditions Optimas that were able to take a barrel that is a CENTERFIRE cartridge or shotshell has to have a 4473. There already is a clarification letter out there somewhere. I had it at one time.

    Call or email the main BATF and ask for a clarification as this JA does not know what he is talking about. This is how people get railroaded then waste a few thousand $ of lawyers fees for them to say SORRY!

  6. #26
    Boolit Master


    tomme boy's Avatar
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    This is why the Optimas that are a ML can not take a centerfire barrel. It is also why Savage changed the design of their action so it can't take a centerfire barrel.

    They are two different things. This all came from the TC actions. They WERE being sold as ML's at first with no paperwork They also then changed the action so they can not take a centerfire barrel anymore IF they were the new ML TC version.

  7. #27
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    OK just got off the Phone with the ATF ..
    my inspector was "partially" incorrect ..Their statement or CYA....he had and gave me the old ruling from 1997 and did not mention anything about the 2005 newsletter which I SHOULD have questioned
    4473 ARE required ONLY for those models than can ready take a modern ammo barrel

    I was sent the same 2005 FFL newsletter as was posted here as an explanation

    Many modern in-line muzzleloaders including those that use #209 shotgun primers for ignition now meet the definition of “antique firearm” and are excluded from the provisions of the GCA. However, there are some muzzleloaders that are still firearms subject to GCA controls. For example, firearms which can be switched from muzzleloaders to breechloaders by exchanging the barrel are still GCA firearms. In addition, a modern firearm that is altered to function as a muzzleloader is still a firearm.
    The following are some examples of muzzleloaders that are still GCA firearms:
    Thompson Center G2 Contender 209-45 Thompson Center Encore 209-50 The H&R 1871 Huntsman Rossi S50 Mauser 98 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel Remington 870 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel Mossberg 500 fitted with a muzzle loading barrel
    Although antique firearms are not subject to GCA controls, dealers should be aware that ammunition, including shotgun primers, is still subject to GCA controls. Persons who are otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms may purchase and possess antique firearms; however, such persons are still prohibited from possessing and receiving ammunition, including
    shotgun primers, as provided in sections 922(g) and (n) of the GCA respectively.


    and find the last underlined part as very interesting as it says shotguns primers are considered ammo and prohibited persons can not possess shotgun primers .. yet we are not required to run a background check when we sell shotgun primers
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  8. #28
    Boolit Master FrontierMuzzleloading's Avatar
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    me thinks your atf buddy is smoking crack and full of it.

  9. #29
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    Yes its sad when the ones charged with enforcing the laws don't know it themselves
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    officials making up laws to back up their personal prejudices........not exactly rare......try dealing with the local council......the inspectors issue penalty notices for non existant laws......and to fight them ,you must spend money on lawyers,or pay the fine.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy arcticap's Avatar
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    Thanks Smoke4320 for making the effort to clear it up.

  12. #32
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    Well I started the ruckus figured I needed to go to the top and get an answer
    should have just called the big bosses first before posting
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing the info, Smoke4320~
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    Restore the Republic!!!

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    Phil Robertson explains the Wall: https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  14. #34
    Boolit Master


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    Told ya

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check