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Thread: Coating take the place of gas check????

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Coating take the place of gas check????

    On plain base pistol boolets, will PC take the place of a plain base gas check?????

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Hick's Avatar
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    I think it does. I've taken to using gas checks on my gas check bullets and PC on my plain based bullets, and getting equal performance. I ran one set of PC plain based bullets through my M1 Garand at 2000 fps and managed to recover one of the bullets, and the PC was undamaged (even still in the grooves),and there was no leading. My Walther P1 chamber (9 mm) won't accept an oversize bullet, so I PC then size right down to 9mm and they also don't lead. That's not a lot of testing, I admit, but it has me convinced.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I would love to hear from anyone else on the subject. When a couple of slices of life get taken care of, I plan to experiment. I have a plain base 311041 five cavity mold I got off ebay that will be the first bullet experimented with.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I don't powder coat but I do use Hi-Tek coating on all my cast, I drive 158gr lee plain base at 2400 fps in my 357 max rifle with good accuracy and no leading. The only bullet I still use gas checks with is my .458 wm loads as I think it gives me better results. Regards Stephen

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Cohen View Post
    I don't powder coat but I do use Hi-Tek coating on all my cast, I drive 158gr lee plain base at 2400 fps in my 357 max rifle with good accuracy and no leading. The only bullet I still use gas checks with is my .458 wm loads as I think it gives me better results. Regards Stephen
    What alloy are you using?

    thanks

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Does anyone have experience with full loads in 45-70 rifle without GC but with Hi-Tek coating?

    It would be cool if this coating could replace Gas Checks? It's not funny to apply gas checks to several thousands of boolits!

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master mattw's Avatar
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    I think it does, now having said that.. I think one could over push a plain based bullet with PC. I run several fairly hot 41 mag and 10mm plain base bullets and have not had any issues. When I do use a gas check design, I do use the check and it is crimped on before coating.

  8. #8
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    When it comes to gas checks I don't know anyone more knowledgeable on the subject than Charlie Darnall the designer and maker of the FreeChex gas check making tools. Charlie will tell you a gas check is not needed on a properly coated and cured PC bullet, however if your mold is a gas check mold, the bullet's base is not going to be flat or round for that matter, so accuracy may suffer. A bullet is steered by the base, not the nose, so any imperfections to the bullet's base causes accuracy problems.

    I personally have fired properly coated and cured plain base powder coated bullets at 3500+ FPS just as a test, without issues, so the polymer jacket will take it.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I'm playing with some 9mm plain base.
    Not getting the results I'm hoping for.
    In my M1 Carbine, gas checked made a big difference.
    I was thinking of plain base gas check for the 9mm, but I'll try some PC's.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by abunaitoo View Post
    I'm playing with some 9mm plain base.
    Not getting the results I'm hoping for.
    In my M1 Carbine, gas checked made a big difference.
    I was thinking of plain base gas check for the 9mm, but I'll try some PC's.
    If you a handgun capable of accuracy you should have no problem getting PC 9mm loads to 1-1/2" and under at 25 yards. If a PB gas check is installed perfectly with a flat base you might see a slight improvement, but I seriously doubt it, and certainly not worth the extra time, effort and money in my opinion. A gas check can improve a bullet's base, PC forms a jacket, but a cast bullet will still be non-concentric, neither a check or PC is going to fix this.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy res45's Avatar
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    Before PC came along I shot plenty of 9 mm, 38 / 357 Mag. and 45 ACP plain base cast lead bullets in all velocity ranges including full house magnum loads with no leading issues so PC never had to solve that issue. I also shot several of those bullets designs that take a gas check including rifle bullets with the check left off before PC came along, I just didn't push them as fast an accuracy was fine.

    If I'm going to be pushing a bullet designed to take a gas check in the upper to HV range especially if I'm using a softer alloy for expansion purposes but not always I'm going to install a gas check PC or not. For those bullets I get better accuracy with the check installed than not. PC for me is just a different form of lube, makes handling and loading bullet much cleaner and provides better long term storage of bullets ready to load.

  12. #12
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    I see no use for a gas check on a handgun bullet.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    I would say to a certain vel/pressure level, yes. You can run pretty soft alloy with PC that would benefit from a gc. I am not a fan of gc bullets except on rifles.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Going to find out. Just cast up 100 340 gr Lee RNFP and Hi Tek coated them. I have 24 of them loaded with 35 gr of IMR 4198. These should be about 1500 FPS or a little more. I don't have a Chronograph, so the speed is a SWAG...Just need a trip to the range now.... Will post the results soon....

  15. #15
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    Abunaitoo If your bases are flat you should have no issue with shooting PC fully coated bullets at normal pistol caliber velocities
    I have gotten to over 1900 FPS with 300 blackout and 308 with excellent accuracy..
    Even shot some 45/70 300 grn gas check bullets ...coated NO gas check at 1600 PFS with very acceptable accuracy
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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    It depends, for basic pistol I doubt a GC is necessary... HV rifle is where it makes the difference ... but what do I know.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Petander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter74 View Post
    Does anyone have experience with full loads in 45-70 rifle without GC but with Hi-Tek coating?

    It would be cool if this coating could replace Gas Checks?
    Just got back from the range shooting 45-70.

    Lyman 325 RF plain base @ 2000 fps is my fastest cast 45-70 load. Hi Tek TMG Gold, sized .4595, NOE .459 expander. BHN 16-18. I haven't really grouped (never put a scope on it yet) it but you can hit clays on the berm standing @ 75 m all day with this load using stock Marlin SBL ghost ring sights. Exactly 50 grns of Vihtavuori N130, burns very clean. Easy crimp, just enough to hold the bullets in place while in the tube. Absolutely no lead in the barrel.

    Marlin really nailed it with SBL ergonomy. Tames recoil very well. And the barrel was good for cast out of the box,I've been shooting this for a year now,had two 1895's before this version. This one kicks less,recoils straight back


    I still find amazing that the coating holds up. But it does.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Petander; 05-30-2019 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Typos in numbers...

  18. #18
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    I think too many are worried about the coating failing due to the high heat of cartridge ignition. On a properly coated and cured PC bullet that is just not a problem. One needs to realize the at the moment of ignition the bullet's base is subjected to high heat, in the range of 5000 degrees, but the duration of high heat is so short that it does not affect the polymer jacket. The main reason for a gas check is to protect and seal the bullet when high velocity loads are used. The polymer jacket does the same thing. I have never retrieved a PC bullet that gave any indication that the jacket failed to protect the alloy.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by abunaitoo View Post
    I'm playing with some 9mm plain base.
    Not getting the results I'm hoping for.
    In my M1 Carbine, gas checked made a big difference.
    I was thinking of plain base gas check for the 9mm, but I'll try some PC's.
    With the 9MM, the first thing you need to watch for is downsizing the boolit when your loading

    Did you slug the M1 and confirm your boolits are the right size?

    How fast are you pushing the boolits

    How hard are they

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy Time Killer's Avatar
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    In pistol powder coat is all you need for most there are exceptions. Rifle depends on alloy and how hard you push them. 30 cal over 2000 fps I have experienced gas cutting with powder coated bullets. This was observed on recovered bullets. Most of my mix is 50/50 lead to ww with 1-2 percent tin added. These are water dropped after coming out of the powder coat oven. BHN ranging from 16 - 18. This is my hunting alloy so it is what I shoot in my guns most. I am sure a harder alloy would fair better.

    The following info was obtained from Ranch Dog Load Notes. Alloy 95 percent wheel weights 5 percent tin. This is from someone who has done extensive testing with alloys in rifles.

    Air Cooled up to 1700 fps
    Water Quenched up to 1900 fps.
    GC Air Cooled up to 2250 fps.
    GC Water Quenched up to 2500 fps.

    This related to how well the alloy holds up. I think that powder coat allows us to push the bullets a little faster before we reach the alloys limits. How much that is depends on the alloy/caliber and gun though.
    Last edited by Time Killer; 06-01-2019 at 03:44 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check