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Thread: Do all NOE Molds cast way oversize always?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Do all NOE Molds cast way oversize always?

    Guys am I disappointed because I a just ignorant, or Have I good reason to be

    The first time I orderd 2 molds the SWC 255 gr @ was perfect @ .431”
    The .357 168gr SWC Keith boolit was a desaster at almost 180gr and .364” in size.
    They (Swede Nelson) said they wil refund it if I send it back, but I live in South Africa that’s allot easier said than done...

    Then This time I needed a heavy flatnose .45-70 boolit for a Sharps cast size @ .460” their drawing specifically give a size of .460, I finally got it yesterday from a friend that went over, cast about 200 boolits, and it is freaking me out casting sizes between .463” and .464”

    I size down to .4595” and there is evidence of being sized non-concentric especially on the driving band.

    This is the mould in question: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/...E3__Sketch.Jpg
    God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy.

  2. #2
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    They cast to the size listed when using the listed alloy. What alloy were you using?



    IF you want to get the perfect size from your alloy;
    call Al at NOE molds (801) 377 7289, and tell him the size/weight/shape you want and the alloy your using.

    This is true of all molds

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    They cast to the size listed when using the listed alloy. What alloy were you using?



    IF you want to get the perfect size from your alloy;
    call Al at NOE molds (801) 377 7289, and tell him the size/weight/shape you want and the alloy your using.

    This is true of all molds
    I use Clip on Wheel Weights, thats All I got..., thats Why I never questioned the cast size, it do cast at 526gr average , maybe my COWW alloy is a bit “different “ but 3-4 thousands over, I don’t think that could be the cause, but I might be wrong...
    God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy



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    casting temp as well as the alloy mix can effect the final size of the boolets.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    Alloy and casting temp can easily equal +/- .004, also NOE molds are +.002.

    If your boolits are coming out heavy your alloy is lead rich.
    NRA Benefactor.

  6. #6
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    I have not had that experience.
    I have several (maybe 15?) NOE molds.
    While a few cast exactly as specified, most do cast .001 over the spec, which is to be expected...I'd rather have them cast .001 over, than .001 under. I've always assumed that was part of Al's forumla as to cutting cavities to size.

    I would suspect you have some mechanical issue with that specific mold, like a Burr inside the alignment socket, or similar. If this is your only NOE mold, them maybe it has something to do with technique, like how you hold the handles or how they are mounted. Lubing the alignment pins is always helpful with this type of issue.

    As to Mold temp and alloy type making a mold cast larger? My experience is, when trying to make a mold cast larger, I have found that having a mold cooler than typical, but still casting good boolits, they will be shiney and not frosty, then they may be about .0003 larger (not .003) and the same with casting with a Antimony rich alloy, you can get them about .0003 larger than with a alloy will a smaller percentage of antimony.
    So, reversing these techniques may...and I say, MAY, produce a boolit that is .0006 smaller (not .006).

    Those reasons are why I suspect you either have a mold that was machined wrong, or there is a mechanical problem or a technique problem, but likely NOT a alloy or temperature problem.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    Springfield's Avatar
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    He said the were too big, not too heavy. Lead rich bullets tend to be smaller and they have less spring back after casting. Maybe adding more lead to the mix will help. Unless you are pushing them very fast WW is more hardness than you need.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    As per your 1st post did you cast these 200 boolits or did your friend? Was there any flashing on them? NOE molds are top notch I have 12 and all cast exactly as advertised with WW + 2% tin. You could have got a lemon but I would try changing cast temp and keeping that mold heat the same as in your cadence. If you have or can find some tin I would add the 2% and see what that changes.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for all the excellent replies guys.

    To give you some feedback:
    *LEE PRO 20 melt pot, alloy is kept between 550 and 600 degrees while casting.
    *Using Layman thermometer
    * if alloy temperature goes below 550 degrees the the nozzle gets to cold and stops to flow.
    *mold gets heated up on top of the furnace, then heated up by casting until a propper boolet is cast. Casting boolets until the bullet surface gets frosty, I let it cool down by opening it up about 3/4” and blowing a couple of breaths through the gap.
    *Handles used for casting session: RCBS
    *Mold size: 2 cavity
    *Boolets are not out of round at all, so I really doubt the chance that the mold do not close 100%, Seams are very fine and almost unnoticeable.
    * I have a Lee hardness tester.

    ~ Oily, I cast them myself, what do you mean by “flashing “?
    - I have absolutely no idea what a “ cadance” may be....
    -I do have some Pewter and stick on wheel weights
    -Velocity is 1495fps 32” barrel
    Last edited by Fisher; 05-12-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Am I missing something here? Do you have a bullet sizer? Do you expect to shoot as cast for a particular reason?

    Simply buy a sizer for what you need and size the bullets.

    CW
    NRA Life member • REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  11. #11
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    Make sure your closing the mold completely- it sounded like you did because , you're boolits are nice and round with no fins at the parting line . Cut your coww's with stick on ww and try casting at a higher temperature 700 , this probably won't help the .464' much ' but they will be easier to size down + lube a little before sizing just to make sizing a little smother . Preheat your mold a bit hotter before casting . This is just a idea , it seems I get more diameter on my cast boolits when I cast at a lower temp and smaller diameter at higher temperature due to shrinkage .
    Is your gas checks going on easy or do you need to force them on ?
    Last edited by toallmy; 05-12-2019 at 03:38 PM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    Your WW's are probably a different alloy than the ones made here in the USA. Yours are probably what ours were 30 years ago. And that is why they are casting oversize.

    Try mixing your alloy 50/50 with some pure lead if you can find it. Or with stick on WW's.

  13. #13
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    ▲▲▲ what tomme said.

    You mention they are running light, could be your wheel weights have more antimony or tin than ours. Lighter = bigger

    Try adding some pure if you can find any and see if the size decreases. How hard is your COWW?

    As JonB said, I've had excellent results with my NOE molds.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    I find the same thing with some NOE molds.They cast on the big side of the tolerance.But I have never had one cast over the+ .002 tolerance he has.I am in the camp that and alloy or temp change will not help much.i would check and make sure the mold is closeing all the way.if so NOE needs to make things right and I am sure he will make it right .

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy Teemu's Avatar
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    I have huge pile of different NOE molds and they drops just a little over with pure Pb and 2 % Sn and about 380 C. Except one .360 mold but that is from 2014-2015. it should be something like 180 grains but it drops about 200 grains. Still diameter is right. Only weight is wrong but I don't mind that.

    I know that feeling when You could send mold back etc. but shipping fees are about half of price that mold so that won't fly. I have few issues with NEI back in time and they ask send mold back but I refused because of shipping fees. They send me new one still.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Try bringing the alloy temp up to 700 to 750 cast till the boolits are frosty and keep casting about 10 more set those aside and measure. Should shrink them down a bit. Try some Lee handles if you have them.
    Cadence is the pace that you cast at. Try counting to 3 or 5 after the spru hardens. AKA this helps keep a constant temp. Too fast, too hot etc.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfustyle View Post
    Try bringing the alloy temp up to 700 to 750 cast till the boolits are frosty and keep casting about 10 more set those aside and measure. Should shrink them down a bit. Try some Lee handles if you have them.
    Cadence is the pace that you cast at. Try counting to 3 or 5 after the spru hardens. AKA this helps keep a constant temp. Too fast, too hot etc.
    I was thinking the same also on the temp need to brought up like you stated also Need sizer too because some of them will need to be sized . alot of molds will not drop the size that is stated on for them ,Also the reasons are what been stated.I do not worry about boolits over size .I size my down and keep track of the mix of alloy I use . It is not always what is stated of what it is use for the make of the mold.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper9260 View Post
    I was thinking the same also on the temp need to brought up like you stated also Need sizer too because some of them will need to be sized . alot of molds will not drop the size that is stated on for them ,Also the reasons are what been stated.I do not worry about boolits over size .I size my down and keep track of the mix of alloy I use . It is not always what is stated of what it is use for the make of the mold.
    I will be doing just that, Al at NOE answered a mail I sent them, he suggests that a pot temperature of 700 degrees should be maintained. The instructions that came with the mold, noted that mold temperature should be kept under 600 degrees, which I miss applied to alloy temperature...

    I will cast a batch @700-750 degrees and let you guys know.

    Thanks from for the participation.
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  19. #19
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    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    You never answered the question if you are planning to size or shoot as cast. Shooting pan lubed as cast is OK as long as they will chamber in your gun - if they won't chamber you will need to size - either lube size or Lee/NOE size.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    You never answered the question if you are planning to size or shoot as cast. Shooting pan lubed as cast is OK as long as they will chamber in your gun - if they won't chamber you will need to size - either lube size or Lee/NOE size.
    Sorry Wane...
    I would prefer to pan lube, or size down a maximum of 1thousands (0.001”)
    God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check