So which Manuals - First and to expand library

[RogerDat]

I have the Lyman Shot Shell Reloading book, and between that and online, plus a download or two have been able to get some loads but have been thinking of getting another manual for shotgun. With all the combinations of wads, hulls, powders I just don't think one manual can cover it all.

I guess my goal is to research loads that can minimize my need to stock lots of wads and powders. Or if I'm having poor results give me a good source of alternatives to test.

Having an interest in loading the more expensive buckshot, slugs, and round ball adds another dimension to what constitutes a good second or even 3rd manual. I know BPI has some dedicated to these subjects but have also heard they sort of focus on their components.

So my question is what two or better yet 3 manuals would folks recommend for shotgun reloading? And in what order would they rank them. Since I have the Lyman I would consider that a given but by all means put it in your list if you think it belongs. And don't feel limited to just 3 manuals if you think there are others that provide good value.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: Have a look at Ballistic Product's Manuals. they have manuals and pamphlets on just about every aspect of Shotshell Loading.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Sh...partments/271/

Their load data tends to cover the products they sell, but any of it can be interpolated to cover just about anything you want to load.

Keep in mind not to interpolate or push top end loads as small changes can have big effects on pressures at the top end. On the bottom end there is more flexibility.

Randy

[RED BEAR]

I like the ballistic products manual also like the alliant manual and its free just call.

[RogerDat]

I like the ballistic products manual also like the alliant manual and its free just call.

That is good to know about. I have a fair amount of alliant powders so that manual would be useful thanks. Have used load data from member super blazing sabots (AJ) for my round ball 20 gauge loads.

Like to know what people find to be good manuals because sometimes those sort of books can be a total waste of money. Other times a treasure of useful information and data.

Getting the "stack" right pretty much either requires going with a proven recipe or having enough components on hand to make changes, and enough experience and wisdom on the subject to avoid making a grenade. I lack both but have enough sense to be pretty cautious on any changes or tweaks. I would like to avoid having that big supply of components on hand too. Seem to me most shotgunners settle on a load or two for the majority of their needs.

[gpidaho]

The manual I go to most is the BPI Advantages Manual. It is kind of a catalog for BPI products and gives very little information on wads that you would find at the local gun store but does give thousands of combinations. Also a lot information on shotgun reloading and specialty tools. Gp

[RogerDat]

At BPI I see the:
Advantages Manual for shot loads.
Buckshot Manual for buckshot.
Slug Loading and Field Application for slugs. - This one is one where one reviewer outlines how some common hulls or cast slugs just are not well represented in the load data.

My slug use case is going to be cast not store bought so that slug manual might not be the right choice. My Hulls are mostly Winchester for 12 gauge. Remington for 20 gauge. Despite what BPI said in response to the lower rating & review about buying the right components rather than going with what you have.... yeah I don't plan on buying slugs or ignoring several hundred good hulls so I can buy more from BPI.

[Hogtamer]

Download these for sure.

http://www.tsn.biella.it/armi/Manual...c%20Manual.pdf

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre...liant_2000.pdf

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

https://cdn-federalpremium2.azureedg...180712T004714Z

[izzyjoe]

I have the Lyman, and I also have the one's from Midway that are called "one book/one caliber". Which is just a medley of different books in one! But there is a lot of info in them!

[RogerDat]

Download these for sure.

http://www.tsn.biella.it/armi/Manual...c%20Manual.pdf

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre...liant_2000.pdf

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

https://cdn-federalpremium2.azureedg...180712T004714Z

Downloaded they are and thank you very much. I plan on putting together a shopping list for components and between these I should be able to come up with items that will yield the options that will give me the best coverage. I notice that several have some buckshot loads listed. Not a lot of slug loads but the Lyman wasp waisted air gun pellet one is well covered in the Lyman manual.

[megasupermagnum]

As far as I can tell, my BPI advantages manual has everything any of my individual BPI manuals have. By that I mean every load in the buckshot manual, is also in the Advantages manual. The slug manual might be the only other one to get, else the Advantages manual is the one to go buy. To be honest, I very rarely look at any BPI manual anymore. I never 100% trusted their data, but it used to be workable. Now they have gone off the deep end and 95% of the data they produce is for fiocchi hulls and other European components. BPI is mostly a Fiocchi, Rio, and Gulandi dealer now. There's nothing too bad about that, except I don't like Fiocchi or Rio primers, and their hulls won't take an American primer without more work.

You did good to start with the Lyman manual, it is the best shotgun manual currently available IMO. Beyond that, I find myself looking in older manuals more.

[longbow]

I'll add that I like "Reloading for Shotgunners". It doesn't have a particularly large slug section but for birdshot loads it lists generally multiple loads for each set of components from low pressure to max and lists pressure. It also tends to show a variety of components to reach the intended velocity so if a guy doesn't have Winchester primers say, there is likely a listing for same hull, powder, wad, payload but different primer. That is what is missing from my Lyman manuals ~ they tend to show only one or two loads for each hull with a given powder.

There are so many variables in shotshell reloading that it pays to have many sources to check in my opinion. Unlike metallic cartridge reloading it is not so easy to "work up" a load as some seemingly small changes can have large effects on pressure but little change in velocity. Pressure signs are not so easy to see nor are they consistent with different hulls.

From what msm says above maybe its time I buy a newer BPI Advantages manual. Mine is fairly old and not so inclusive. I agree with him on the limitations but I think it is still a good resource. It turns out that apparently I can get almost unlimited Cheddite hulls locally from the trap club. Not only are I against using free once fired hulls but Cheddite are a straight walled hull good for slug loading and BPI has (or had) lots of load data for them.

A guy can't have too many sources for shotshell load data!

Longbow

[gpidaho]

Be aware that if you purchase the BPI Slug loading & field application 7th edition that the load data given is heavily weighted toward slugs you can buy from BPI and for the RB, Foster, Lee key drive and the Lyman sabot slug the only wads used are BPI products. I've been stocking up on primed hulls from BPI. Gp

[RogerDat]

I have debated buying the tool BPI makes to reform the primer pocket so an American primer will fit. As noted by megasupermagnum it is more work.

So $20 for the tool which could allow some to more easily use the large amounts of good free Euro hulls they can score. On the other hand it is $20 to fix a problem one can just avoid by avoiding those hulls.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Un...tinfo/0740010/

I think I recall reading that some of the Euro hulls matched some US hulls for inside form. So fairly interchangeable in load data.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: What I am finding is that the 2500 or so Win AA's that I have along with countless range pickups with folded crimps, don't make as good ammo as buying New Primed Hulls from BPI at .12 each. As such they are being relegated back to being loaded as Trap Loads were they produce perfect reloads.

Also hulls that were previously roll crimped, tend to roll crimp so much better than hulls previously fold crimped, and Roll Crimped slugs seem to shoot better IMHO.

I am using the BPI Hulls for all of my Accuracy Testing Loads, and the end results look exactly like "Factory Loaded Rounds" obtained from Brenneke and Lightfield both of which use Rio Hulls

I just did a Shotgun Class at Front Sight a few weeks ago and managed to pick up a box full of the nice Blue Federal Low Recoil Slug hulls. I am using these for loading my Mihec Lyman Sabot Slugs and Lee 1oz slugs. These two slugs drop from their moulds with the best trailing edges of all slugs I cast. I see this as being a primary concern just like it is with other cast boolits.

With slugs the all same factors that influence other Cast Boolits affect Cast Slugs as well.

the big one is,,, "The Back End is the Steering End"

Randy

A good and Uniform Roll Crimp is Key to the performance as is getting the slug into the bore perfectly square.

[gpidaho]

I also prefer new primed hulls for slug loads. The strait-walled hulls are in my opinion a much better choice than tapered hulls for slug loads. The tapered hulls like the old style Winchester AA's or the Remington STS Premiers make great trap style loads and that's where mine get used. As for the new Winchester AA HS's, Well they're not my favorite for either use. I have a large stock of previously fired hulls and I surely don't throw them away or leave them on the ground at the range but when putting together slug and RB loads I feel that it is false economy to use them. . If you watch for specials at BPI you can buy the new primed hulls at a bargain price. I recently picked up 2400 new Cheddite primed hulls for just $99. Heck, the primers alone are worth $60 or more. Along with the 1500 or so misc. other new hulls on hand, I figure I'm set for a good long while. As I much prefer to roll crimp slug loads I just won't fight with hulls that have been fold crimped. Not worth the frustration. Gp

[RogerDat]

What wad is that under the Lyman style slug? The Lee looks like some claybuster I have seen. I was all set to use the red WAA12R for that Lyman slug and they are discontinued. Am sort of looking for a Lyman slug wad to replace that discontinued one.

For 20 gauge round ball experimentation I did buy a bag of primed cheddite 3" hulls. So not totally dead set against the Euro hulls. It may be that I will end up doing the same thing for 12 gauge slug. I would like work toward fewer powders, hulls, wads, and tools being required. However I expect those Cheddite hulls will cycle through being reloaded as round ball loads so no reason I can't do the same sort of thing with 12 gauge. I will have to address the primer size issue, probably buying that $20 tool from BPI. Would rather have all my hulls use the same size primer even if for some reason I can't do the same brand.

Right now I'm looking at slug and buckshot mostly because those two are the most expensive shells. I don't shoot shotgun enough to really warrant loading the few shot/trap loads I will use. However I have a thing about wanting to be able to feed from homemade anything that is around to be loaded. That and I have collected a few hundred pounds of shot at good prices so it is economical enough to be considered "saving" me money if I reload with it.

It was the realization that there was a lot of options to sift through that really got me thinking my single manual wasn't going to get the job done. However the point of getting more load data was to better locate the wads and powders that will give me the most coverage and options for the fewest components having to be stocked.

[gpidaho]

RogerDat: Yes, Winchester has dropped most if not all of their components. Precision Reloading Inc. has the Claybuster WAA12R replacement wads in stock. 500 for $10.99 Gp

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: the Blue Wads are Claybusters from BPI and they are meant for slugs.They have a heavier base to the shot cup.. The white wad is a Claybuster WAA12 clone which I use for my Trap Loads and Pumpkin Ball Loads.

Keep in mind these are all low pressure loads and changing a wad won't hurt anything. The only serious spikes I have seen is substituting Federal Primers for Winchester Primers. There is usually a Large spike in pressure by doing that. However the difference between 8500 psi and 9500 psi is not going to hurt you. If you are talking High Pressure Slug Loads in the high 13000+ psi range a pressure spike at that level could be a big problem so you have to kind of pay attention to what you are doing.

Keep in mind that higher velocities also induce greater recoil. All my loads are down around the 1300 fps or less range at my top end some below 1200. When you get up to the 1500-1600-1800 fps range you are starting to see some pretty coarse recoil and nobody plinking wants that. For full on Butt Kicker Loads you can buy Brenneke's which are about as much as anyone can stand, so IMHO there is little need to load for that range since you probably won't be shooting more than a few of the heavy loads in any given time frame.

Loading for "accuracy" and loading for "sheer power" are two entirely different things.

Randy

[RogerDat]

RogerDat: Yes, Winchester has dropped most if not all of their components. Precision Reloading Inc. has the Claybuster WAA12R replacement wads in stock. 500 for $10.99 Gp

I know someone that tried the CB replacement and it wasn't working well for the Lyman slug. I seem to recall AJ did some measuring of wads and had the CB one down as pretty tight.

Yeah I get you on the difference between hammer hard and accurate general shooting round. One thing I am sort of looking forward to is being able to load shot at a weight down from the more common weights for some of the grandkids and kids or their wives. You know 3/4 oz load instead of 7/8 oz as a slightly more moderate 20 gauge load. How much oomph does it take for a slug or buckshot to do a number on a squash, aluminum can, or container of water? Because outside of paper and the occasional clay those are the most common targets for me.

I have been looking at Precision Reloading and BPI for prices. Have bought from them before. I need a couple of crimp starters for the Pacific / Hornady presses.

[trapper9260]

If you want just the basic data .Contact Lee for there load all data for 12ga and 20 ga and you can go from there.