MidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationRotoMetals2Wideners
Lee PrecisionTitan ReloadingADvertise hereRepackbox

Donate Now Goal amount for this year: 6000 USD, Received: 5750 USD (96%)
Our Annual server fund drive is going on now! This donation drive helps fund Cast Boolits for an entire year, and helps support our 2nd amendment rights! You can donate by Paypal by clicking the DONATE button. Or by Cash / Check / MO to the address below:

Willy Snyder
PO Box 2732
Pocatello, ID 83206
****Due to overwhelming e-mails, I will be very slow in updating this list. Please bear with me!****


Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 144

Thread: Divorce and suicide

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy UKShootist's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Derby, UK.
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    This area of the forum is a sub-section of the Chapel. The Chapel (i.e., not mosque, temple or synagogue) was set up for Christians and by extension the "Deep Theological" area is for use by Christians (or honest seekers) to discuss biblical ideas, teachings and understandings.
    In other words, an echo chamber where you can preach to the converted.
    The lion shall lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much sleep.

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    1,046
    There seems to be a confusion between theology and philosophy. The PIT and H&OT are the place to discuss philosophy, this is the area to discuss theology. If one chooses to make philosophy (humanism) their god, that's their God given rite to do so, and to follow it to the end. To live by a philosophy also takes faith, it's just not spoken of in those terms. This area is for discussing theological matters as pertains to Biblical/ Judeo Christian values, and as one can see, there is a wide variance on these matters, without introducing straight humanism into the discussions. I don't devalue anyone's beliefs, as it's your rite to hold them, as long as your rites end where mine begin, etc. Indeed, it is a place for discussion amongst the, "converted"!

  3. #43
    Boolit Master

    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,337
    Quote Originally Posted by UKShootist View Post
    In other words, an echo chamber where you can preach to the converted.
    This area is far from an echo chamber. You will see plenty of disagreements, but all within a common Christian world-view.

    You wouldn't go into the muzzle loading section of this forum to argue that muzzle loaders suck and enlightened people use cartridge rifles would you?

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    This area is far from an echo chamber. You will see plenty of disagreements, but all within a common Christian world-view.

    You wouldn't go into the muzzle loading section of this forum to argue that muzzle loaders suck and enlightened people use cartridge rifles would you?
    So our chapel, deeply theological, subforum is for Christians only?


    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundarstick View Post
    …….. This area is for discussing theological matters as pertains to Biblical/ Judeo Christian values, and as one can see, there is a wide variance on these matters, without introducing straight humanism into the discussions. ………...!
    Why do you think the Subforum is for Biblical/Judeo Christian values only. If I missed the guidance that make that site policy please point me to it. Even if that is the case, discussing arguments against Jesus being not actually the Christ would discussing the fact that the bible might be fiction would still seem relevant. I think many here would also argue it is not just for the ""converted" the undecided or not yet converted are certainly welcome.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #46
    Moderator



    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    11,960
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    So our chapel, deeply theological, subforum is for Christians only?
    Tim
    Preacher Jim posted (stickied) what the Chapel is meant for and for whom.

    Chapel is a place for all to bring their needs.

    This is not a place to debate theology.nor is it a place were what church you attend is important. Here all are equal and welcome. All of us who love the Lord will be neighbors in heaven singing praises to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
    No one's opinion is more important than yours. Remember we need each other for fellowship, prayer, and community of believers.
    If we stand together, pray together we will see many miracles happen.
    Will you help us build the chapel into a place of prayer, help for those in need and a place of peace?
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post3745329


    Jim's sticky in it's sub-forum "Deep theological discussion" goes like this:

    Welcome to the place to discuss your deep ideas


    Keep it civil and remember this is a test of new area for chapel.
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...our-deep-ideas
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  7. #47
    Moderator



    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    11,960
    With all that stated, this thread is about Divorce and suicide.

    It seems we have gotten a bit off topic.

    If someone were to start a thread about...
    "Jesus being not actually the Christ"
    OR
    "discussing the fact that the bible might be fiction"

    There might be a little bit more latitude, than discussing it in this thread.
    I'm not deleting any posts YET...but I'm getting real close.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    West Tennessee
    Posts
    1,046
    Thank you, I was about to say the same thing about topics.

    The thread that was the start of this subsection? Creation vs creationism

    Feel free to start a thread on other theological issues, but theological implies a belief in God and seeking his will for us.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    2,825
    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Preacher Jim posted (stickied) what the Chapel is meant for and for whom.



    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post3745329


    Jim's sticky in it's sub-forum "Deep theological discussion" goes like this:


    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...our-deep-ideas
    Thanks Jon. I will accept that guidance and keep my contributions here relevant to the Bible. Judging from some of the posts about Muslims not everyone feels so restrained but I understand if you allow some diversions.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    379
    Unfortunately these topics are intertwined. Using the Bible as a moral authority in which to pass judgement misses the point entirely but even if one chooses to, not all scripture is of equal importance. Old vs New Testament, red letter words vs everything else....

    All this to say that one should expect some push back when using scripture outside it’s intended purpose.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    1,735
    Just a word about this forum on Theology. The word means a study of God's word; that's the Christian God and his word is found in the Holy Bible.

    It's a free world and anyone can inject whatever they wish but we are under no obligation to yield the podium to interlopers.

  12. #52
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    697
    Suicide is insanity, and the result of a clouded mind, always and every time... period.
    Whether that choice is made for fear of pain, loss of material things, deep depression, etc., it is ALWAYS the choice of a person driven insane to one degree or another.
    If you believe “God loves everyone”, then it would seem that you have to also accept God would know the difference between sane acts of deviance and the actions of a hurt or wounded, confused individual.
    “God knows the difference”, and suggesting that suicide somehow condemns a person is inexcusable, would be the only logical conclusion... in my opinion.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, NY 14808
    Posts
    1,430
    How can "worse" be defined when to step over the line from righteous to unrighteous earns the ultimate penalty? What does it matter where one crosses the line?
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    "I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
    I may be discharged and retired but I'm sure I did not renounce the oath that I solemnly swore!

  14. #54
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    State of Denial
    Posts
    2,618
    Divorce - people and their outlooks change over time. What god worth following would want you to live in ongoing misery?

    Suicide - it's been said often that God never gives us more than we can handle. It would seem that those who choose this path would arrive at the pearly gates begging to differ. Everybody comments on the choice from the outside and suggests their views on the situation from the outside from their viewpoint of having easy solutions. Not all who land on a desert island have the ability to fix a broken outboard motor, have the cloth to make a sail, know how to make a new boat, can navigate by the stars, or have someone to contact to come rescue them. Whether their own choices or things beyond their control (Hey! Acts of God!) put them on that island, they may arrive - quite logically and maybe even correctly - at the conclusion that options do not exist.

    I believe that the whole concept of "suicide as sin" was created as part of "religion as government": You start by telling the suffering peasants growing your crops that if they behave themselves, they'll get paradise when they die (and are no longer your problem). Their existence pretty much sucks and has no chance of getting better, so they start offing themselves to get to paradise. With the cheap labor force providing your meals declining, you write the addendum that suffering = paradise and suicide = hell.

    If you're of the sort that believes God has a purpose for everybody, would it then not be logical to conclude that a suicide's purpose in the world would be as instruction to others? That could be as simple as "Take steps not to get yourself irrevocably stuck on a desert island, but accept that you might end up in that spot someday", or more nuanced, such as "When you're old, decrepit, full of tumors, and a burden on your loved ones, there's no shame in taking the long walk out on the ice flow"
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  15. #55
    Boolit Master

    Ickisrulz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Shawnee, OK
    Posts
    2,337
    It's funny how the same topics come up here again and again.

    1. Suicide: There is no passage in the Bible prohibiting taking one's own life. So logically, the Bible does not say you will go to hell for doing so. Like polygamy (which is also not prohibited except for church officers), it might not specifically be mentioned because it is self-limiting

    2. Divorce: Divorce is a necessity for some circumstances. Two are given in the New Testament: repeated adultery or if an unbeliever does not wish to be married to a Christian. It also follows that divorce would be appropriate in situations of domestic violence or other kind of abuse. God himself is a divorced person (Jeremiah 3:8).

    3. Some sins worse than others?: Common sense says that murder is more serious that stealing a farmer's apple because you're hungry. If one needs a proof text:

    Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin." (John 19:11).

  16. #56
    Boolit Man


    PowPow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher Jim View Post
    Sin is sin. God hates sin, no degrees of sin.
    ^ This. Ending one's own life is sin. Ending one's marriage is sin. Both are equally sin, neither being pleasing to God.

    My advice to the OP: Consider doing something else that is not sinful.
    SAF Patron (Life) | GOA (Life) | NRA Benefactor (Life) | MSRPA (Life)

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    697
    No sin is worse than another is silly, at best.
    No reason for judgement from your creator, if that’s the case.

    So if a platoon of soldiers was pinned down by a machine gun nest, and one soldier decides to draw fire (in a suicidal way) so that his Brothers in Arms might have the chance to get into position to take that nest out... He gives his life, suicide, so that his brothers might live... Is he sinning, and his actions shunned?... Or is he celebrated, and respected by all, especially those that lived because he sacrificed himself?

    Die-hard make-believe rules in religion are usually easy to reduce to being ramblings by people that don’t think critically.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master

    gbrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    S.E. Texas
    Posts
    1,211
    I'm not sure of all this, as I hear and see thoughts which seem logical, but apparently are based on interpretation of scripture. I have always been raised, and believe that there is not big sin or little sin--it's sin. It is we humans, saddening God by "missing the mark", not doing as he commanded us. God's judgement is God's judgement, all I can say. He sees into our hearts and souls. He will judge by what He sees there. If it is as He intended and wanted for us, its good. If its merely a justification or rationalization, its bad. These are purely my thoughts. To excuse any sin, is not within our baileywick, that is up to God. I'm not judging anyone here. I can't. I hope I have lived my life as I should. I will be judged one day and we will see. One of the people that had an impact on our founding fathers was Roger Williams, founder of Rhode Island. I have read some of his work, and I, personally, agree with it. We have a church, which we should be faithful to and work with in attendance, faith, fellowship and support, but our contract with God is our contract, a one on one basis.
    Last edited by gbrown; 06-22-2019 at 11:08 PM. Reason: Correction
    One of my father's favorite statements: "If I say a chicken dips snuff, look under his wing for the snuffbox" How I was raised, who I am.

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    110
    Having seen the results of both divorces and suicides, up close and personal, I will say this: Both are messy, and both are usually caused by someone's, or multiple someones', selfish acts.

    I've personally known three people who committed suicide. One got caught for embezzling over a million dollars. He'd always been a big shot, at least to himself, and he couldn't stand the idea of being a nobody in prison. One had cancer, and refused chemo and radiation, and used Oregon's Death With Dignity Act when the pain got to be more than he could bear. And the other one was as a result of depression. This was back in the early 70s before doctors knew as much about chemical imbalances. The shrink told her "I can't do anything for you." It was true. He couldn't. Not while her brain was chemically imbalanced. But he either didn't know or didn't tell her about medicines that might help. Or he did and she didn't hear or believe him. Regardless, she lost hope of ever getting better. It is said that a person can last weeks without food, days without water, but not one moment without hope.

    So how do those three line up with my first statement about selfish acts? The embezzler was only thinking about himself. He couldn't stand the thought of being a nobody, a number in prison. He was already a selfish man (remember - bigshot?), who treated his family as possessions. They weren't, but he had so trained his worldview that he couldn't see otherwise. The second was in his mid-60s, and had never married. And was, quite frankly, a curmudgeon. So he was mostly alone, by choice, as he didn't suffer foolish opinions well, and if you didn't share his opinions, well, you were a fool, because he was right. And the third? That one's a bit harder to see the selfishness. To cut to the chase, in believing what one shrink told her one time she chose the easing of her feeling of hopelessness over the pain her death caused to her husband, her three children (10-14) and her family.

    Regarding divorce, we've all seen the results of those. Excluding Hollywood, where many marriage are really just for the publicity, when there are children involved both sides usually end up using the children to hurt the other parent, or try to get back at the ex by telling the children bad things about the ex. Maybe true, maybe not. Also, when children have divorced parents, they often go on to getting divorced themselves, continuing the cycle. Because their parents never learned, or chose, to back down and realize that sometimes when you're married you give up your "right" to be right, and do it your spouse's way, whatever that may be. And it goes both ways. Both spouses have to give up their "right" to be right. As the pastor once said, when two people marry, they actually create another, that takes precedence: "He" and "She" marry and create "US". And what is best for "US" must prevail if the marriage is to last and prosper.

    So, to finally give my opinion on the original question, neither is worse in the eyes of God. Both cause pain and suffering beyond the "primary" actors, with varying degrees of collateral damage. Jesus said that no one can snatch what is his from his hand (I'm paraphrasing).

    If someone commits suicide, but they've previously accepted Jesus as their Savior, they still go to heaven. But those left behind still have to deal with the aftermath.

    If a couple divorces, even if either or both are true Christians, they're still saved. But there will still be consequences. Maybe not big consequences. Maybe huge consequences that impact entire communities. But those are the things they have to live with.

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    159
    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Just a word about this forum on Theology. The word means a study of God's word; that's the Christian God and his word is found in the Holy Bible.

    It's a free world and anyone can inject whatever they wish but we are under no obligation to yield the podium to interlopers.
    The title of this forum is Deep Theological Discussion.
    It does not say Christians Only!

    There are different belief systems out there that acknowledge God as creator.
    This is the place to have those discussions.
    Interlopers, eh?
    (sigh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    .......

    1. Suicide: There is no passage in the Bible prohibiting taking one's own life.
    Hmmm, does "Thou shalt not kill" ring a bell?

Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check