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Thread: In the beginning....

  1. #21
    Boolit Master



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    People doing bad stuff is not an example of God's imperfection.
    It is an example of free will.
    Bad stuff happening in general is due to the curse the world is under due to man's sin in the garden.

    The Creator is not bound by His creation or the laws we create/observe in that creation.

    The law given to moses never once was referred to as a means to salvation.
    Simply the standard of those claiming to follow God.

    As stated earlier, Christians generally believe the original language scripture is directly inspired whereas translations should be reconciled against each other.

    These are my attempts to edify and exhort the body.
    No argument is directed at any poster.
    WebMonkey
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  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebMonkey View Post
    People doing bad stuff is not an example of God's imperfection.
    It is an example of free will.
    Bad stuff happening in general is due to the curse the world is under due to man's sin in the garden.

    The Creator is not bound by His creation or the laws we create/observe in that creation.

    The law given to moses never once was referred to as a means to salvation.
    Simply the standard of those claiming to follow God.

    As stated earlier, Christians generally believe the original language scripture is directly inspired whereas translations should be reconciled against each other.

    These are my attempts to edify and exhort the body.
    No argument is directed at any poster.
    Hebrews 3:13, 1st Thessalonians 5:11. Thank you, webmonkey!
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv109323 View Post
    The law was given to show mankind that God has always looked at our faith to determine our eternity. God did not make a mistake by introducing the Law. God did it to so man could realize that he could not follow rules and that faith was the pleasing factor of God. The just shall live by faith has existed through all dispensations. Before the law, Abraham had faith to move into the land God showed him, Noah had faith to build an Ark and so on.. So when Christ died the ceremonial part of the Law was done away with. It was not God adjusting his plan. All people both Jews and Gentiles at all times could please God through faith.
    Nicely put and spot on
    when the dust settles and the smoke clears all that matters is I hear the words " well done my good and faithfully servant "

    <(*)(()><

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv109323 View Post
    ...…...…...You doubt if man has preserved the Bible correctly but your position mantains that man is totally correct about times past. ……..Beware of man not God.
    People talk about the Bible as if it is a single book or two books but it is really an anthology. Many books and documents that the Catholic Church, the Original Christian Church prior to its division east and west and prior to the Reformation, compiled into two volumes as the Old Testament and the New Testament. The Church Leadership decided which ancient texts and which writings of selected Apostles to include in what they authorized as the Bible for the Christian Religion. The original texts were written in languages with small vocabularies so the writings lack a greater degree of nuance or clarity.

    What is called the bible is defined by men not God.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    After the Catholic Church created the bible the Modern Jews created their own book and called it the Torah.

    The Bible started coming together around 300 AD (CE) and the oldest Torah is from around 1000 AD (CE) they both contain content consistent with much older documents like the Dead Sea Scrolls the oldest of which is from around 200 BC (BCE). All of these documents are much new than the first written words that date as far back as 5000 BC (BCE). To bad nobody has anything written by Noah and we have much writings from before the great flood but nothing written about the flood from the time of the flood or maybe we do but if it is to believed many people survived the great flood like the oldest settlements in the new world that date back to 7500 BC (BCE) that don't appear to have been inundated. It seems the Great Flood was localized to the region around the Mediterranean.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy cephas53's Avatar
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    "Is each day in Genesis a 24 hour day?"

    At one time thought about this. There was a time years ago where some put emphasis on explaining the Bible scientifically. From our knowledge the universe is about 14 billion years old. Mankind has been around about 200,000 years with "civilization" occurring in the last 6,000 years. So if we correlate that with a 24 hour clock we've been here about 15 minutes or so.
    Remember having that explained to me, didn't come up with it. Things like this can be interesting but also a detour off the path.
    I know I'm not a big poster but enjoy your discussions here.
    If you take a dog which is starving and feed him and make him prosperous, that dog will not bite you. This is the primary difference between a dog and a man.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master


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    This is a bit of a long, but very interesting read.

    It is about the originator of the Big Bang Theory. A man of science and also a man of God. A man who could speak to the Pope or to Einstein. I had never heard about him until this week.

    The Faith and Reason of Father George Lemaitre

    https://www.catholicculture.org/cult...fm?recnum=8847

    Some quotes of interest if you do not wish to read it all.

    It is a point of great interest nowadays, when there is so much loose thinking and still looser writing and talking about the non-existence of God, of the immortal soul, and of a host of eternal verities, to see a man who is both a priest and a scientist fraternizing on the most intimate terms with the world's most illustrious scientific geniuses. He not only associates with them, but he is their peer; and in that is the lie given to the old and empty charge that the study of science means the loss of belief in religion. Lemaître, of course, is usually an object of great curiosity — not so much to his coreligionists as to many not of the faith who marvel at the "phenomenon" of a Catholic priest being a scientist, yes, not only a scientist of the regular run, but a genius whose theories are most daring.6


    Should a priest reject relativity because it contains no authoritative exposition on the doctrine of the Trinity? Once you realize that the Bible does not purport to be a textbook of science, the old controversy between religion and science vanishes . . . The doctrine of the Trinity is much more abstruse than anything in relativity or quantum mechanics; but, being necessary for salvation, the doctrine is stated in the Bible. If the theory of relativity had also been necessary for salvation, it would have been revealed to Saint Paul or to Moses . . . As a matter of fact neither Saint Paul nor Moses had the slightest idea of relativity.15


    But Lemaître also felt that Catholic theology guarantees the autonomy of science:

    He (the Christian researcher) knows that not one thing in all creation has been done without God, but he knows also that God nowhere takes the place of his creatures. Omnipresent divine activity is everywhere essentially hidden. It never had to be a question of reducing the supreme Being to the rank of a scientific hypothesis.19


    The writers of the Bible were illuminated more or less — some more than others — on the question of salvation. On other questions they were as wise or ignorant as their generation. Hence it is utterly unimportant that errors in historic and scientific fact should be found in the Bible, especially if the errors related to events that were not directly observed by those who wrote about them . . . The idea that because they were right in their doctrine of immortality and salvation they must also be right on all other subjects, is simply the fallacy of people who have an incomplete understanding of why the Bible was given to us at all.25



    Anyway...I am not a Catholic but the work and ideas of this man are astounding. He is not light weight in either science of theology.

    He believed that science and theology are not enemies of each other....a refreshing perspective that should be considered by the more rabid of each camp.

    The answer is clear...Genesis was not completed in six 24 hours days. But God was the Creator!!!
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Matthew 5:48....Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    He allows Mohammadens to exist.
    They do the work of their father the devil, although cast down to this world, he has picked up quite a few followers!
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    I am going back to your first post to give an overview answer:

    I will lay out what I have garnered from the Bible:

    1. The creative days are NOT literal 24 hour days. There are a couple of scriptural reasons for this:
    a. Genesis 2:4 KJV says "4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the DAY that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens," (bold caps added by me for emphasis) - If day were taken literally, then all 6 creative days would have to be ONE day .
    b. Psalm 90:4 KJV says: "4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as YESTERDAY when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Here, one day (yesterday) would be 1000 years if taken literally.
    Based on just these two examples, it is clear that a "day" does not have to mean a literal 24 hour period.

    2. The creative days are as follows, according to Genesis:
    day one, light and darkness
    day two, expanse
    day three, land and plants
    day four, luminaries:
    day five, aquatic and flying creatures
    day six, land animals and man
    day seven, rest

    “If I as a geologist were called upon to explain briefly our modern ideas of the origin of the earth and the development of life on it to a simple, pastoral people, such as the tribes to whom the Book of Genesis was addressed, I could hardly do better than follow rather closely much of the language of the first chapter of Genesis.” - Wallace Pratt, Geologist

    With point one in mind, there is no issue with there being some time in which animals of all kinds existed PRIOR to man being created.

    3. The teachings of the Christ SHOULD be our primary roadmap, but there is much in the "Old Testament" that helps us understand Jesus' teachings - background/context helps tremendously!

    4. While it is true that the Bible has not been translated PERFECTLY, it is pretty darn close!
    “It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately transmitted.” - William H. Green Hebrew Scriptures scholar

    “The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning.” He also said: “If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt.” - Bible scholar F. F. Bruce

    There are an abundance of ancient manuscripts available, that when compared, show only minor differences from one "family" of texts to another. By "family", I mean different source copies. To illustrate, from the original copy, let's say 10 copies were made and each of those copies was distributed to 10 different congregations. Then copies of each of those 10 were made and passed on. While an error may creep in one family of texts, it is unlikely that the SAME mistake would be made in the other 9 families of texts. Hence, when texts are compared across "families", the original text can be determined. That is the Cliff's Notes version.

    5. I have to disagree about our creator being perfect (Deuteronomy 32:4). When we look at the mess mankind is in, it is not his fault, it is the fact that man misused his God Given free will.

    6. Finally, I agree with you mankind has a poor track record - on EVERYTHING! The vast majority of religions do NOT follow the scriptures - they follow traditions and man-made philosophies.

    I hope I did not offend with anything written. I was merely trying to share. Please know I am not seeking to offend anyone.
    Have a great evening!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by docbrown View Post
    ……………..Finally, I agree with you mankind has a poor track record - on EVERYTHING! The vast majority of religions do NOT follow the scriptures - they follow traditions and man-made philosophies...…...Have a great evening!
    In your opinion which Christian sect most closely follows the scriptures?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

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