What Experiences with a Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle

[RogerDat]

I'm looking to purchase a Rowell bottom pour ladle. I'm going to be filling 4 cavity ingot molds that hold 2.5 pounds per cavity. My initial thought was to use a #3 or #4 ladle. But at 4# and 4.5# capacities neither one can fill even two cavities in the ingot molds.

Started looking at the #5 which can hold 9# of lead. I figure no problem to do 5# at a pour, or maybe even 7.5# and fill 2 or 3 ingots per pour. Both the #4 and #5 ladle have the D shaped handles with slide grip so two handed operations seems the norm for using them.

I don't normally use a larger ladle, when I do I usually use two hands in order to guide the pour into the molds with greater control. I haven't used a large ladle for pouring smaller ingots. Just use large ladle for larger ingots in bread loaf pans

My question is has anyone used the sizes mentioned #3, #4 and #5 that can comment on how easy or hard they are to use? Or if you used a larger Rowell ladle to speed production of ingots how did the extra weight vs. the faster production work out for you?

I'm really thinking the big production 9 pound ladle makes the most sense but can see where I might be able to use the smaller 4 or 4.5 pound ladle for more general uses. I only know folks with the smaller 1 or 2 pound ladles and they say good things about how clean they pour.

[CastingFool]

I have used a large Rowell ladle as a melting pot, and it worked great. It was at work, during my lunch break. Pouring four 5 lb ingots was easily done. The ladle was probably about 8"-10" in diameter. Never used any of the smaller ones.

[lightman]

If you see yourself collecting and smelting lead for several more years I would say go for it. (yeah, I know smelting is not the correct word)

I recently bought one but I don't remember the size. I think its either a #4 or #5. It holds enough molten lead to fill a 4 gang Lyman mold in one scoop. I also bought that larger skimmer. I melt wheel weights in batches of 350 to 400# and these two tools have speeded up my operation and made it easier. I would gladly buy them again and wish that I had bought them earlier in my casting career. I see stuff like this as an investment. Like my larger pot and the burner thats big enough to melt 350+ # in 20 minutes or so.

The bottom pour spout makes it easier to hit the mold without splashing lead all over. The "D" ring on the end of the handle and the sliding sleeve make it easy to dump. And both the ladle and skimmer have a long enough handle to distance you from the heat of the pot.

I know I'm sounding like a paid advertisement but I don't think you will be sorry.

[kevin c]

I have the #5.

So far I've used it for pouring storage ingots of around 9.5 to 10 pounds. It will hold that much but it will be VERY full, and requires a very steady hand, and slow, smooth turning from pot to pouring table. Walking with a ladle that full is out of the question, as even a slight jar or bump will spill lead. It takes me ten to twelve seconds from full ladle at the pot to the end of the pour, and there's no speeding this up if you want to pour all ten pounds at a time. That's also into a small but deep bread pan mold. The CB mold is much shallower, and a fast pour might splash. Holding up ten pounds of lead plus the weight of the ladle, another six, for a slow, carefully controlled pour may be problematic. If nothing else it will be tiring the more that is done in a session (I do ~240# a go, and sometimes do three pots over a day). With the CB ingot molds I figure on pouring two or three cavities per ladle. 7 or 8 # is less likely to spill, easier to pour in a controlled fashion, and may be less tiring. Also if I decide to flood the top of the mold to link the four ingots, the second ladle will have enough to do that as well as fill the last cavity or two.

Oh, I should mention that this ladle is a bit tricky to fill - the bowl is large and the handle extends straight back which makes dipping it into my 12" diameter half propane tank processing pot a laughable experience that gets you less than a full ladle from the first go with a full pot, and less and less per ladle every fill afterwards. To get close to full capacity and consistent weight storage ingots from each pour, I have to rest the Rowell on the edge of the pot, with the bowl's handle flange on the rim of the pot, and fill it with a soup ladle (here, the D ring handle makes it possible to hold the ladle steady without rotation with one hand while the other fills with the other ladle). Works for me, but it'd be much faster to fill from a high capacity bottom pour.

Just my own experiences and thoughts, FWIW. YMMV.

[jmort]

I have a #7
I would not go bigger
A #5 might be the sweet spot at 9 pounds
#6 is 25 pounds
#7 is at least 40 lbs
I do not have to completely fill the #7, so there is that option
Works well with my four cavity angle-iron ingot molds

[RogerDat]

It is sounding like the #5 is a good choice. I did wonder about filling it so thanks for the suggestion to use another ladle to fill it with while it rests on the pot. I just couldn't see any good way to scoop the last 10 or 20 pounds out of the pot with something that big. Didn't consider even with a full pot it wouldn't dip flat enough to fill. I have a Harbor Freight Dutch oven so a wider opening and less depth than a propane tank pot but I think the same problem will exist

For my project of getting my lead stash better organized I think the #5 has the capacity to use in the group buy molds 2.5 pound ingots and it sounds like it will help speed production. I have a ladle that does around 3 pounds so that can be used to fill the larger ladle. I wouldn't mind a smaller bottom pour for doing pewter or solder scrap like the #2 or #3 but it isn't going to be as useful as the big one will be. Especially in the short term.

I don't plan on ending my scrap scrounging ways anytime soon but I have slowed down some. Willing to pass when it isn't a good deal. Looking for better stuff and less likely to snag anything I can use. I spent several years gathering more than I used. Nailing some good deals on bulk purchases along the way. Now I need to put it all in good order. I have however decided to put a little more emphasis on buying COWW's because for the price they are a good lead that is getting hard to find. While I can find it I think I should buy it. If I don't use it someone will I'm sure. Those WW's I do in 110 pound batches so the big ladle will see continued use after the "big organize" is over.

[RogerDat]

I ordered the ladle from Advance Car Movers (makers of a cast lever for moving rail cars) who are also the manufacture of the Rowell Bottom Pour Ladle. Picked USPS priority shipping and the total for a #5 ladle with shipping was $53.78 or a touch over $9 less than the $64 from Amazon (with free shipping) and also less than from Rotometals at $57.19 plus shipping.

https://www.advancecarmover.com/rowe...ingladles.aspx

Just thought I would pass on the link to where one can purchase these ladles for a better price than most places. Even in the smaller sizes there is a few dollars to be saved going directly to the manufacturer.

BTW - the deciding factor was I can get 4 pounds into a 9 pound ladle better than I can get 9 pounds into a 4 pound ladle. I will probably be filling to around 8 pounds each pour in order to fill three ingots. If the weight is too much to handle comfortably I will just come down to around 5.5 pounds and fill two ingots. The #5 empty only weighs 1 pound more than the #4 at 4.5 pound capacity so I have options with the larger ladle from filling one ingot to filling three. The next size down would only fill one ingot.

[Chill Wills]

I am late to the thread.
I had the #5 Rowell and used it a lot some years ago. I was working from a 100 pound working load dutch oven on a plumber's floor furnace on the concrete. Working on the ground, IF you don't have a bad back you will soon enough - unless you have a set-up where you can work standing up full on straight, moving that number 5 Rowell over and over again is not a good idea.

You probably have a smart table high set-up. Sorry for the drama....
What was said in the above posts about not walking around with a "load" is very true. At that size, it is a two hand ladle all the way. No sloshing allowed. I now have a 240 LB capacity rendering pot and really still don't miss that ol' #5 because I do have a common looking open top 3 pounder that works well for my 2 lb muffin and smaller assortment of cast cookware I have for batching a load of ingots. Everything I cast in ingot form these days is small enough for the 20 lb casting pot. You guys that sell have larger requirements.

Last month, while it was still cool I put up 875lbs of BPCR range scrap and sure could have used it but the open top 3 pounder fills the smaller ingots fine too. I am good for about two years on that BPCR alloy. I have a bunch of other scrap lead but it will wait until next winter.
I got rid of my #5 but kept the one pounder. In fact I traded the #5 for a bullet mold here in the FS and trade section.

-Chill Wills

[country gent]

I have a rowel 1 lb ladle and its big for casting bullets with. also its an industrial design with a longer handle I don't care for. I have seen the rowel catalog at work and thay have ladles from 1 lb up to around 50 lbs. I hand 2 hand a 1 man and 2 man. I made a ladle from a 3" weld on pipe cap that did good pouring ingots. cut a 3/4" pipe coupler at an angle and welded it to the side of the cap. then a 4' piece of 3/4" sch 80 black iron pipe for a handle. A 4" length of pope that slides over the handle would make a sliding forward handle and a heat shield.

[alamogunr]

I've got a #1 and a #2 for casting and a #5 for cleaning up WW and other scrap. I have to admit that after awhile the #5 gets awfully heavy. You start wobbling more if you have to take more than 1 or 2 steps to pour into a mold. I admit that I don't use the #5 much any more. Only for mixing large(200+ lbs)quantities of alloy and that is not often any more.

Depending on what type of pot you use to melt your quantities, you will be constantly adding more lead to the pot because it is difficult to get a full ladle when you get to less than half full. I switch to the #2 when I'm finishing up so I don't have a lot of melt in the bottom of the pot. But then my muffin pan ingots are only about 1½ lbs.

[kevin c]

My propane tank processing pot is set on a Bayou Classic jet burner that in turn is set over concrete blocks, so the rim is about thirty inches off the ground. Being short keeps me from having to stoop much, but it's necessary to lift the bowl of the Rowell over the rim of the pot after filling so straightening up after the fill is a good thing (lifting with the legs, of course - my physical therapist would be proud).

My pot holds 250 pounds easily, which I can pour into ten pound storage ingots with the #5, one ingot per pour. The loaded pot is stable enough on its base for me to rest the ladle, even when full, over the rim. I fill, lift, rotate to the molds, and pour. The molds are on an U shaped work area within a half step from the pot, all to my left (the ladle pours to that side) at pot height.

I can do three pots a day, seventy odd pours (the last twenty pounds are in the shallow bottom of the pot where even my small ladle has trouble scooping it up, so it either stays to speed up the next melt or I pour it directly from the pot [it has a spout, courtesy of DCrockett] held with vise grips). But believe me, I'm glad I have a break while the second and third pots melt down.

I might try ten pound pours with the #5 into the CB mold, but I'm thinking, while slower to do two ladles with less lead in each, that would be easier and safer.

[RogerDat]

I will be working on a metal table at a fairly decent height but my back and hips will be pretty pissed after the first 100# pot and will welcome the break while the 2nd pot melts.j I found that adding a small pallet to raise the molds up avoided a tendency to bend over as I poured.





I have over a thousand pounds of base ingredients (COWW's and Plain) to mix with several hundred pounds of sweeter alloys so I am storing most in a ready to use form like Lyman #2 or Hardball. I will have to pace myself. That is for sure. I think I will be trying to do about an 8# fill in the number 5 ladle. Should allow me to pour 3 of the 2.5 pound ingots.

Later I may purchase a smaller version for regular use. Maybe a #2 or #3 I pour a lot with a ladle that does a touch over 2 pounds. Used to pour the angle iron ingots in the picture.

[lightman]

Roger, I think you will be happy with that ladle. The next thing you need is one of the larger skimmers. You'll be like me and wonder why you didn't get these sooner!

You Guys are onto something trying to avoid walking, bending, stooping, ect while pouring molten lead. I have looked at a lot of the videos on Utube and I'm amazed at the number of them that show the ingot molds on the ground. Not for this ole back!

My burner and pot put you holding the ladle about waist high when standing straight. The landing zone is about a half step away. You fill the ladle and turn making a short step and pour. This kind of lets you rest your wrist on your hip bones and add some stability. I usually have a friend or two that want to melt some of their lead whenever I melt mine and we work together. Two of them are taller than me and I put the burner on a small pallet when they are on ladle duty.

Its all about ergonomics. If your method causes back pain or leg pain then adjust things to be more comfortable. And plan your set up to minimize the number of steps required. My pot holds close to 400 pounds and we often do 3 batches and occasionally 4 batches in a days time. And I certainly understand what you guys mean about looking forward to the down time between pots!

[RogerDat]

Good grief, I don't think I would want to move 3 or 4 batches of 400 lbs. in ingots let alone as raw material, then in a ladle, then as completed ingots to storage location. It is supposed to be a fun hobby not strength training for the Octagon!

On the other hand having 1,200 to 1,600 lbs. of lead stacked up at the end of the day does sound sort of nice. Me I figure a couple of hundred pounds is a good days work. Two pots or so. And if being honest I feel like I have accomplished something if I get one pot into finished labeled and stored ingots. Of course the larger 2.5 lb. ingots and more molds might help. The angle iron bar ingots are only about 1.5 lbs.

I ordered from Advanced Car Movers when I posted a couple of days ago, it was after hours in the evening. I just got an email with a tracking number so essentially one full business day to process and shipping on the second day. Oh please be here by this weekend! Save me from being condemned to only accomplishing yard work and other nearly useless tasks.

[alamogunr]

Rigging things to save your back most definitely helps. When I was doing large melts to ingots, I made a stand sort of like a sawbuck and salvaged some scrap walkway grating from work as a surface to set my ingot molds on. It was sturdy enough and large enough to both pour and dump ingots on to cool. When I got to about two tons of ingots, I got rid of a lot of stuff that was taking up storage room. Never thought that I would want to use it for mixing various alloys. Should have gotten rid of the pot and burner stand too so I wouldn't be tempted to do that heavy work any more.

[lightman]

Good grief, I don't think I would want to move 3 or 4 batches of 400 lbs. in ingots let alone as raw material, then in a ladle, then as completed ingots to storage location. It is supposed to be a fun hobby not strength training for the Octagon!

On the other hand having 1,200 to 1,600 lbs. of lead stacked up at the end of the day does sound sort of nice. Me I figure a couple of hundred pounds is a good days work. Two pots or so. And if being honest I feel like I have accomplished something if I get one pot into finished labeled and stored ingots. Of course the larger 2.5 lb. ingots and more molds might help. The angle iron bar ingots are only about 1.5 lbs.

I ordered from Advanced Car Movers when I posted a couple of days ago, it was after hours in the evening. I just got an email with a tracking number so essentially one full business day to process and shipping on the second day. Oh please be here by this weekend! Save me from being condemned to only accomplishing yard work and other nearly useless tasks.

Roger, thats a busy day for sure. Three batches is not too bad. Four batches is a hard day. Thats just melting, fluxing and casting ingots. It may include set up and breaking down and a little cleaning up. But the ingots won't be stamped or put away. And I'll have at least one buddy helping. I wouldn't be up to that kind of day alone! I do have my operation set up where everything is close together. I have one of those heavy duty flat carts like you see at Lowes that I keep most of my stuff on. Buckets of lead, a bucket for my tools and ingot molds, a landing zone all right there.

And these big smelts may be a thing of the past. I'm not aggressively hunting lead anymore although I'll take whatever comes my way. I've even scrounged good enough that my buddies are stocked up pretty well.

But you are correct about the satisfaction. When I'm sipping on that beer at the end of the day and looking at that stack of ingots the aches and pains subside a little! Think good tired!

I hope your new ladle arrives in time for you to use it this weekend.

[Walks]

I keep thinking about buying one to fill the 1x4 ingot molds. Thinking about a #4 too.

But then I think, my arthritis is not going to get any better.
If ya got 20+yrs to use one before you start to physically degrade it's gonna be great.

[kevin c]

Used the #5 today with the 4x2.5# CB molds. A few observations:

There's a lot of aluminum in these molds, and a cold mold chills the pour to solidus quickly. Ugly ingots until the mold warms up.

Flooding the mold to link the four ingots (to label 10# once rather than 2.5# four times) didn't work for me today. The linked ingots refused to drop. I think the bridging metal is causing binding as the cooling ingots shrink.

A very full ladle can fill the four cavities, but it's much easier to do two or three. I'm liking two, as it sets up an regular cadence of two pours per mold.

It's easy to splash with the #5. The problem is worse trying to do a controlled pour with a full ladle: a slow stream chills more easily, especially in a cold mold, and the solidifying metal in the bottom of the mold makes the flow into the rest of the mold erratic. Better to get hot metal into a hot mold, but then there's the splashing from the more rapid pour. I found that the problem was worse pouring into the mold at right angles fron the long side: the pour hits the bottom and splashes up off the sidewall of the cavity. It works much better to pour along the long axis of the mold so the pour can run the length of the cavity to slow down. This also lets me pours faster, and, if the mold is cold and the metal solidifying on first contact, I can run the pour up and down the length of the cavity, letting the hot fresh alloy remelt the first part of the pour. Less ugly ingots that way, at least until the mold heats up.

[RogerDat]

Sounds like filling the 4 x 2.5 cast boolit molds is a lot like filling the angle iron molds as far as filling goes. Long way works best with the pour moving down then back. Really need to pre-heat to get smooth ingots.

Don't think I want the 4 cavities tied together. Will take up more room having a gap between each ingot, won't fit tight in a SFRB either.

I sort of suspected only handling the 5# or 7.5# to do two or three cavities might work best, good to have it confirmed. I get what you mean about doing 2 cavities per filling sets up a good cadence.

Walks - something to consider the #5 empty only weighs 1 pound more than the #4 and you have the option of not filling the #5 with any more lead than the #4. I went with the #5 because it allows me to go both ways. Only a couple or three pounds in the bowl or twice as much as the #4 and any amount in between for that one extra pound of ladle weight and some of that is probably the longer handle which might (hopefully) provide leverage to more than compensate for the extra bowl weight.

The specific size of the ingots being 2.5 pounds did mean that the #4 couldn't do two cavities (5 lbs.) which a #5 could do if just filled a bit over 1/2 full. That was a big factor for me. Eventually I will probably want a smaller one for ease of use and doing smaller jobs like pewter or scrap solder melts. The older I get the more I'm willing to pace myself at a slower pace as long as I get to keep making progress in the direction I want to go.

I like to think of it as getting smart enough to use a wheel barrow to move a bag of cement instead of carrying them one at a time at a fast walk or using the wheel barrow to haul three bags because it's fast. One bag in a barrow trip is still getting the bags moved just working at my "smarter" pace.

If I live to use one for another 20 years I'll get to tell everyone see I told you working with lead isn't bad for your health, just don't lick your fingers or the ingots. Only problem is most of the people I know who questioned casting lead will probably be dead in 20 years cheating me out of an "I told you so".

[RogerDat]

Well bother! I have had a tracking number for a couple of days but not showing as actually moving in USPS tracking site. Just pre-printed label. I sort of think it unlikely that the label was printed without there being a box to stick it on and ship so....

Who knows. But no reason at this point to expect I'll be able to pour nice skimmed ingots for dear wife on mothers day with new ladle. Except that I have seen the tracking info not update until package is out for delivery before. So.... fingers still crossed. Does make typing tough though.