Identify My Type? Lino vs Mono vs Foundry

[rototerrier]

Sorry for all my questions and posts, but I'm learning. I've already done some researching and have found some conflicting information.

I have solid sentence Lino....but not much of it. So far I've only sorted out half of a 5 gallon bucket. I suspect i'll end up with a full bucket of it.

Everything else is little single letters, big single letters, blocks, boxes, and spacers.

Are the single litters Mono or Foundry? From what I've researched, they appear to possibly be foundry? Wanted to throw these photos out here to see what you guys think.

I can take as many photos as necessary. If different angles or more info is required, let me know. Very excited about all this as it's my first big score of "type" lead. I've had plenty of ww scores and that's old news to me, but this has felt like finding buried treasure and I want to know as much about what I have as possible.

Note: A lot of these little single letters were all separated and organized in the wooden tray you can see under the metal trays in one of the photos. I had probably 10 wooden trays completely full with separated letters. Not, full of single letters...literally each little compartment was full with letters. Then I have the trays where they are all combined up in a print with their spaces. In my online research, I've found where foundry is typically separated like that in trays and it all seems to add up to being foundry. If so, that makes it even higher quality than mono/lino? At least in terms of antimony and tin, it should be. A little bit of this mixed in with WW or even pure lead would be good stuff.

[cabezaverde]

The individual letters is foundry type.

[Petander]

Have you seen this?

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

You may get some experienced answers here. What happened to me was that my "monotype" is actually closer to foundry. XRF test tells the truth.

I also used to have "linotype" with normal lino look, it tested more like monotype. I was wondering why my bullets got extremely hard doing WW/lino -mixes.

Testing is good. I convert factory trap shot back to slugs, just tried a new brand (Rio) and to my surprise it has quite a lot of antimony. How much? I will get it tested, now I'm saving the oatmeal dross for future cooking.

Good luck,whatever you have there it's great stuff. Try mixes with WW or pure,check hardness.

[lightman]

You shouldn't apologize for asking questions. This is a discussion forum and most of the members are more than willing to share their knowledge.

Linotype is lines of type. Whole lines of words and letters making sentences. The spacers are similar to this minus the letters. The single letters with the groove are Foundry type. The single letters without the groove are Mono. Linotype comes in bars weighing around 22 pounds. Its in a "U" shape with a blunt nose on one end and a pair of claws on the other. Linotype spacers may be made from Linotype metal or most anything else. The few that I have had were thin enough that I could bend them by hand. If they bent I called them "other" and if they broke I called them linotype.

Like Petander said, an XFR test is about the only way to know the exact composition. Linotype was remelted over and over and gradually lost some of its tin. The single letters were used over and over and were more likely to be the alloy advertised.

You made a good score! All of the stuff that you pictured is useful for alloying with other lead. And a little goes a long way!

[RogerDat]

the small font individual letters in your hand are foundry type. They have the little groove or notch along the edge. The strip held up above an orange bucket is linotype. AKA lines-of-type.

The spacers can and typically be all over the place. I have some that were in thin strips that when melted together and tested they were at or near monotype alloy. However since the spacers didn't get pounded against the paper they could be softer without any problem.

The spacers that look like linotype without any letters (thicker and have the formed ridge lines in them) are linotype. The linotype machine allowed one to type on a console and have the lead "slugs" get generated with the letters and words. One could also generate a space but since they were all cast from same machine they all had same form.

Really it is just the thin metal spacers that you need to melt into one big batch and have tested. Some that are harder are linotype, but high tin can make the strip bend without breaking. They vary too much to sort. Just one big batch of thin spacers that you know what the alloy percentages are is ideal.

Linotype can be depleted a bit from being run as print and then re-melted multiple times. Can be worth making a sample ingot to blend some together and then test a sample from it. Just to confirm where it is at in terms of alloy. If it was run right after refreshing the tin it can actually be a touch higher than normal for linotype.

Those small letters are the best for selling, they pack in a box well without too much wasted space or hassle getting them to fit inside. Folks can tell what they are so they are a known commodity with a known value.

What you need now is at least as much plain as you have printers lead. If not more. If you can get lead COWW's that would make the printers lead go even further. Casting from printers lead is a waste so adding it to less expensive plain lead or COWW lead will more than double your supply of really good alloy.

[rototerrier]

I have the plain lead covered. I'll probably never sell any of this as it'll just make my cheaper lead stash last that much longer. I've made good progress on separating spacers. I'll ingotize all of them and get them tested. I'm just about half way through and have 300lbs in just foundry letters. Can't wait to get a final official weight.

Good news is that I only needed 100lbs to break even. I think I'm well ahead of the curve.

[Conditor22]

Strips of words = Linotype

I was wrong, after some research I found that
single litters = Mono or Foundry depending on the hardness of the alloy, heat and the pressure it was cast at.

http://www.briarpress.org/33756
"Foundry type is defined as type that is cast from harder metals,at a higher heat, and using more pressure to cast the type than is possible with a Monotype caster. Foundry type printed with care can yield over 100,000 impressions before it is too worn down to print well."

"Monotype is the trademark name for types cast using equipment manufactured by Lanston Monotype Company. It was designed to be cast quickly using soft metal, but to have the flexibility of hand-composition, rather than the line-cast method of Linotype, Intertype, and Ludlow casters. Depending on the metal composition Monotype is good for about 10,000 impressions. The name denotes the way it is usually used, mono - printed once, then remelted for future use."

[rototerrier]

I stumbled upon several labels in one of the storage containers today. Looks like this type came from American Type Founders Co, Inc.

Cross referenced that to this: http://www.circuitousroot.com/artifi...ype/index.html

If you scroll down to section 6, Origins of the Myth of "Foundry" type, it explains a little about the origins of "Foundry".

So, technically the single letters are probably safely considered Monotype, but my particular lot literally is most likely Foundry Type which would be coined by the manufacturer it came from.

All very interesting stuff. I had no idea about any of this until I started digging. Just kinda thought it was all the same.

Definitely going to get some tested to see if I get up to the 25% antimony levels of what foundry type is said to be.

[Conditor22]

Send a sample to BNE. I hope it's Foundry, better stuff. What I discovered is foundry is pressure poured/ injected

[JBinMN]

I don't know if this will help or not, but I have some foundry type that is right out of a package & never used. Here are a couple pics:


Close up:


Hope that helps ya in some way.

[jsizemore]

Foundry/monotype is a bit all over the place depending on the manufacturer. JBinMn pulled it straight from the box so you can be sure what it is. There was a discussion in the past about the shape of notches being an indicator. Loose stuff I had tested was either. I guess the manufacturers tried to accommodate the different machines out there.

[kevin c]

Foundry/monotype is a bit all over the place depending on the manufacturer... I guess the manufacturers tried to accommodate the different machines out there.

What I have researched, read here, and had analyzed myself backs this up.

Bottom line for me is that, even if you're sure what kind of type or typemetal you have, you can't be sure of its exact content, although it's fair to say that what you have in hand is antimony and tin rich, and that there is a rough rank order in approximate content depending on the classification.

For boolit casting applications where the tin and antimony are just there for fill out and hardness, and also for the many, many years where inexpensive analysis accurate to a tenth of a percent wasn't even dreamed of by casters, an approximate BHN and a bit of experimentation by casting with the alloy in question was and still is all that's really necessary.

Maybe it's different for commercial manufacturers where a consistent product is necessary, but for hobby casters, content analysis, I now realize, is an indulgence for obsessive compulsives like myself ;^b

[Conditor22]

Smelted Monotype? (large and small letters) I had Tested By BNE
Sample #1
Pb = 72.0%
Sb = 17.6%
Sn = 9.4%
Cu = 1.0%

Sample #2
Pb = 73.0%
Sb = 16.7%
Sn = 9.4%
Cu = 0.9%

[David2011]

Metal type was still in use when I took a typography class in college although the professor explained to us that computer set type was a fad that would pass. Monotype as our textbooks explained was stored in the typesetting machine and when a key was pressed a piece of the corresponding letter was sent to the section where the words were assembled. Each character has a unique profile on its back side and when the print job is complete the machine returned the characters to their proper storage rails. Mono should be harder at about BHN 28 compared to Lino at 22. Foundry type was generally larger hand set type that was used to add a local grocer’s name to a pre-printed sales flyer, a date to a pre-printed concert poster and other similar add on printing. Foundry type should have a higher BHN than Monotype. This isn’t gospel; just what a textbook said 45 years ago.