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Thread: How does this fired bullet look?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy

    oconeedan's Avatar
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    How does this fired bullet look?

    I'm pretty new to powder coating. I used HF red and shake / bake method. They look good to me, I get a pretty even coating. Today I fired one into jugs of water and was surprised a bit of the result.
    I cast old wheel weights, and air cooled them. Powder coated. Cured at 400 for 20 minutes. I "thought" that when running the bullets back up to 400 and letting them cool slowly, they would be pretty soft. Boy was I wrong.
    This bullet went through about 20 inches of water and down into the hard GA clay. I was surprised, it looks like I could load the same bullet and shoot it again.
    It is a Lee 310rf gc design, no gas check. Ruger SBH 7 1/2", 17gr 4227.
    I would love to have my bullets mushroom in hunting situations. I think I'll try pure lead with powder coating.
    By the way, I have shot pure lead slugs and they work well on deer. But un-coated will lead the barrel, obviously.
    I am interested in your input. Dan



  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy dave 45-90's Avatar
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    Do the smash test. All the ones in .32 shot into phone books retained all the coating. Looks like you may have an issue with powder sticking. Should have saved the ones I shot, but threw em back in the pot. It was interesting that the lead melted out of the coating like a molting locust before the coating burned
    Lot of guys on here have a boat load more experience than I do. They will be along also to help
    It's a learning curve and a whole lotta experimentation . Read all the other posts Wealth of info on here
    That's the fun of it
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    my WFN 44s expand fine at 3% antimony air cooled. your powder charge is just too low for it. Hornady online data shows 17.5 minimum charge imr4227 even with 355gr cast LFN. based on their data your probably around 1kfps and 19k CUP pressure. if your intentionally that speed id probably mix half ww with pure air cooled and try again.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    if your using lyman book data like a lot of us, just want to point out that there's sometimes a big discrepancy between that and new Hornady online data.
    for example,

    lyman 4th
    310gr WFN, 1.710 OAL, max charge 296, 19.3gr, 38,000 CUP..

    new Hornady online data,
    325gr LFN, 1.730 OAL, max charge 296, 22.0gr, 38,100 CUP..

    so same pressure with 2.7gr more powder and 15gr more boolit.

    also some random stuff, it looks like your getting the dent ring from using the SWC seater plug for WFN. if you want you can fill in one of the seater plugs with jb weld and sand it flush (flat and square as possible till your hitting outer steel evenly) for intact Boolits after seating, I filled my round nose one cause I don't use any RN.

    and some don't think its worth using cheap powder coat because cost per boolit is extremely tiny either way, even if it coats slightly more easily and bonds a little better its worth the fraction of a penny.

    my recovered pc boolits just look a little better than yours I feel like everything has to be perfect to come out fully coated.

  5. #5
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    PC should stick better than that

    PC usually states bake XX minutes AFTER X happens x = the boolits themselves reaching 400° or the PC starts to flow.

    I'd go 20 min after the PC starts to flow and see what happens.

    HF is the cheapest (in many ways) PC out there.

    Before you go 100% pure, try mixing 50/50 COWW/SOWW

  6. #6
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    What 4227? There are more then 1.

    The bullets base shows the imprint from the powder. A very sofy alloy . Soft alloys make bullets skid & slump.

    Want expansion, up the velocity and go to a 240gr.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Definite problems with the PC adhering to the boolit.
    Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!

    Men who don't understand women fall into two categories: bachelors and husbands!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master 243winxb's Avatar
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    Hodgdon
    Never mix any two powders regardless of type, brand, or source.
    The same lot number is ok to mix.

    H4227 is made in Australia. IMR4227 is made in Canada. Hodgdons packages both.

    Always look at container to see where powder was manufactured. IMR POWDERS HAVE BEEN MADE IN Austrailia.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


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    IMR POWDERS HAVE BEEN MADE IN Austrailia.

    Yes they have I just went and looked in the powder cabinet, IMR 4227 made in Australia
    Charter Member #148

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    You definitely have problems with your coating. Your coating is too thin and not bonded. You didn't mention if you sized the bullets. I would have thought just the sizing process would have indicated problems. You cured at 400 degrees for 20 minutes. How did you confirm the temperature was actually 400 degrees and at what point did you start timing?

    I would suggest getting a quality powder to coat with, one that you know it works using tumble coating so any problems is not going to be the powder. I know someone is going to chime in, "I have been using HF forever and it works great", but I am going to tell you HF is not a quality powder. Smokes who posts & sells powder on this site is a good way to start and there are several online companies that sell quality powders.
    You said you air cool so contamination should not be a problem on properly stored bullets.
    Humidity may be a problem that shows up with a splotchy non-uniform coating. That can be overcome by preheating the bullets to less than 150 degrees before tumbling, but the temp needs to be confirmed.
    Confirmed your oven will go to 400 degrees and hold that temperature no more than plus or minus 10 degrees. An accurate thermometer like the Taylor Oven Guide is necessary to do this, do not rely on the oven's dial.
    If you are doing small batches of bullets like a single tray once the oven's air temperature reaches 400 degree 20 minutes should be adequate.
    Once coated, size your bullets. If you want a softer bullet pure lead is not a problem if it is properly coated & cured. Smashing a bullet will indicate if the PC has a good bond. The scratch test will indicate the hardness of the coating.
    Your next batch should come out much better, good luck.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy

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    Thanks for all of your tips, like expander plug fill in (bmortell) and others (dragonheart and others).
    Short answers, I am trying both sized and unsized, in a Marlin 1894 44 mag that slugs with very short throat to .434 or so rifling, as best as I can measure with Cerrosafe.
    IMR 4227 powder. I was not very happy with groups fired with many different variables using this Lee 310 bullet. I have other 44 bullets but they don't feed well with swc design. A RCBS 240 SIL bullet feeds well, I can borrow one. They buy one if I can get it to shoot.
    I will try better powder (Smokes).
    Bullet smash test seems fine. I whack it and the bullet is fully coated. It slips through a sizer .430, and leaves the pc shiny where sized. Unsized it is about .435, which is why I was trying both sized and unsized.
    I do think a lighter bullet (shorter) will shoot better, according to what I have read about the slow twist. I was just trying what I had.
    And that load...was a starting load only, not something I worked up for accuracy. Still haven't found it.
    Lots of other variables to try.
    Thanks, Dan

  12. #12
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    I shot a pile of bullets into snow to test this winter that I recovered that had about all the pc wiped off the sides. All passed the smash test. Kind of shows me that test isn't a valid test of pc. Found some that held up fine too. I was told to test bullets with a scratch test. The bullets that didn't do well didn't hold up to a scratch test either the ones that did did fine with the sratch test. Also I pulled a bunch of those bullets that failed and found that the 297 I was using for powder was balled up on the base of the bullet like ive seen with tumble lube. I pulled some of the ones that passed with flying colors and no clumping. No add to that if you have a rough bore NO coating is going to hold up to rough steel. It peels copper off of jacketed bullets so I doubt pc is going to be tougher then copper.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check