Saeco Lubri-Sizer: Faking An Unavailable Sizer Die Size (sorta)

[MOC031]

I seldom post here, but I've been benefiting from the knowledge and discoveries others post here for many, many years. If this helps somebody, then hopefully I've paid back some of what I've learned. Pics at the end if the explanation is too vague...

I've been using my Saeco Lubri-sizer for many, many years now. Mostly .35 caliber rifles, a few 30 calibers; no drama. Buy the right sizer die and nose punch; done. Even I can do it.

Now I'm a bit afield with a 1950 Long Branch No. 4 Mk1 Lee Enfield that I got new in the grease with 9 others like it, many years ago. After detail stripping and cleaning them all, each were equipped with a no-gunsmithing scope mount, a 12x Leupold, a few bedding shots fired, cleaning, and then ten shot groups of Greek HXP ball for group. This one grouped unbelievably well, and has been a lot of fun since, equipped with a 1940's era micrometer match sight.



If there's other Saeco owners there plagued with a lack of a big enough sizer for what they want to size to, I hope this helps.

I finally got the itch to see how well it would do with cast bullets: a cerrosafe casting and some mould design led to Accurate cutting two different designs into a set of blocks. And, some paint powder from Smoke, to try that at the same time. Everything arrived and casting began, as I went looking to the online dealers looking for the appropriate sizer die.

Then I discovered what a few other Saeco Lubri-sizer owners no doubt already know: there's a few calibers that Saeco makes a limited number of sizers for. The sizer dies available to those shooting .303 British are among the ones where choices are limited: the biggest sizer Saeco offers is .314". Which doesn't help people like me, who have cast their chambers/leades, and found that my rifle will probably do best with a bullet sized .316".

Sidebar: has anyone mentioned to Redding/Saeco that Lee Enfield rifles are well known for having generous sized chambers to deal with wartime ammunition in field conditions?

At this point it looked like first finding somebody who would make cusom Saeco sizers w/sizer punch, and then being willing to pay for the shop time to have that done.

About this time I went and found the Saeco's owner's manual - a small page with print on both sides. What it mentions is that there is a 7 degree taper to where the lube orifices are (where presumably the diameter is as the sizer is stamped). My Accurate moulds drop bullets that measure across the bands at .317". I have the largest Saeco makes in this range: .314" What if I didn't completely size the bullets - it's roughly .87" from the top of sizer to where the lube orifices are drilled, with that 7 degree taper?

A few experiments with some of them found that at one point in the sizing process, pushing the bullet partially into the sizer spit out a bullet sized .3155" across the seated gas check, and .316" at the top driving band. That would be the same as the .316" sizer I was thinking I would have to try and find somebody to make for me.

This solves sizing - there's still a bit more taper left to go before final dimensions are met at the lube orifices, so I can get smaller diameters yet if I want to. It doesn't solve lubing, however. At this point, not my concern because I hope to do nothing but powder coat from now on.

The last part of the puzzle is how to precisely and repeatedly get the same amount of sizing on every bullet that is being partially sized? Something like the gas check seating stop. The adjustment screw does not have enough vertical threading to work as a stop by itself to limit bullet travel in the sizer. And the push out rod needs to be able to freely travel inside the adjustment screw.

Happily, I came up with one of my rare good ideas (that also happens to work): I simply threaded about eight washers on the push out rod before placing it inside the adjustment screw. Now, by screwing the adjustment screw up and down, I can precisely and repeatedly control how much each bullet is sized within that 7 degree tapered section prior to the final diameter at the lube orifices. The machinist oriented guys here could simply make a new push rod with the rod itself threaded, or thread the original push rod and run a few nuts up the rod to be the stopper.

If I've lost anyone by this point, a picture will hopefully illustrate what I've failed to adequately explain:

[StuBach]

Great MacGuyver fix. Luckily I don’t have this issue but I do love hearing creative ideas.

I’m not sure if he’s set up for it but have you checked with Lathesmith to see if he could make you a die to the size you needed. I know he makes dies for Star and Ballistacast sizers but not sure he can do the Saeco and Lyman ones. Because the return rod doesn’t have to be exact in this case he might be able to turn out the die you have to fit your needs and just use the stock rod? Might be worth the ask.

[MOC031]

I sent a few PM's while I was in the "Ah, ****!" frame of mind. Nothing back in my inbox yet, but half an hour of seeing what I got for sizes with varying amounts of resizing, and I think/hope all will be good.

That is, assuming that powder coating works out as well for me as it is for so many others here. Discovering the PC thing after being away for a while was part of the decision to see if my service rifle would do just as well throwing cast bullets.

Besides, the idea of shooting gophers in Montana with a 70 year old Canadian military rifle, using an 80 year old micrometer sight from Britain, and a custom bullet mould made in the US has it's own appeal. I have an open invitation to harass the gophers on some farmland just north of Whitefish.

[StuBach]

Not sure why but your conundrum intrigues me even though I’m trying to help with an issue I will likely never have.

That being said, now I’m curious why this size I’ve seen around for other more modern firearms (I believe the SKS needs 316 as well?) wouldn’t be supported by a sizer.

I came across NOEs push through sizer set which does offer a .316 bushing. Have never seen their does in action but there was some YouTube videos out there on them and they seem decent and looks like for about $60+SH you could get one of these sets?

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...iqv06r21qd6517

https://youtu.be/XRoudK8THGM

I have no experience with their sizers so can’t speak to ease of use but I know several people who really like the lee push through ones and a couple who love them now that they PC because their faster than the Lyman/Saeco style sizers if your not dealing with Lube.

Sorry, just a thought and a plug for Al over at NOE. Very good guy to do business with.

[MOC031]

Yup; thanks for attempting to help.

My brother uses some of the NOE push through sizers and really likes them; I visited his page and scoped out his offerings when I realized Saeco/Redding doesn't offer the size I wanted. And I'm aware that Lee also offers a custom sized push through sizer. Both were options on my radar, even though I'm still using the same Bonanza Co-Ax press I bought back about circa 1972 or so with one of my first teenaged paycheques. "There's an app for that..." for Co-Ax's where a shellholder is concerned.

I'm not allergic to Lee; I use their push through case resizers for all my 10mm loading for my Bear Wrench. But I've always liked gas check seating as well as sizing in the Saeco, and prefer the right size sizer for the Saeco instead of adding somebody else's gear to my already over-stuffed reloading bench.

So far this works for me. If the PC works as well for me as for so many others here, I am not only going to switch my .30 and .35 casting from lube to PC, but see if twiddling around with partial sizing to modify final sized diameter helps improve the performance of my current loads.

[44magLeo]

Why hot buy an extra .314 die and lap it out to get to .316?
A drill, a dowel and several grits of sand paper will do it. I lapped out my .430 die to get the .432 I wanted.
Leo

[MOC031]

Why hot buy an extra .314 die and lap it out to get to .316?
A drill, a dowel and several grits of sand paper will do it. I lapped out my .430 die to get the .432 I wanted.
Leo

?????

And what did you do to expand the ejection punch in the sizer? The one that seals off the lube orifices until the bullet lube grooves gets there, and then pushes the bullet back out of the sizer when sizing is finished?

If you're just sizing and not lubing, then I could do as you did. Or for less hassle and probably a better resulting sizer, then I would just order one of NOE's sizer kits. It would cost about the same as buying a Saeco lubri-sizer die, and with the purchase of different bushings could also be used for other calibers/sizes.

[Priusron]

What if you sized the cast bullet and the pc it? What would the final size be?

[MOC031]

What if you sized the cast bullet and the pc it? What would the final size be?

The final size would probably be very close or identical to the same size I'm getting with partial sizing, stopping the sizing just before minimum diameter of the sizer die is reached.

If I thought I had a problem with the minimal taper in the resulting measurements across the driving bands and gas check, then doing what you suggest would be an option. To start with, I'm partial sizing after first powder coating.

But if you wanted to use conventional lubing, resizing in available Saeco sizers and then PC'ing up to size wouldn't work. The lube won't survive the oven...

I did find and started another thread here for a source for custom size Saeco lubri-sizer dies. I may order one yet, just because.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...tom-Sizer-Dies

[gpidaho]

MOCO31: That's a good workaround using the equipment you already own but I think it would be much easier and more repeatable if one just bought The Noe bushing sizer. Gp

[MOC031]

MOCO31: That's a good workaround using the equipment you already own but I think it would be much easier and more repeatable if one just bought The Noe bushing sizer. Gp

Well, the NOE bushing sizer wouldn't be less expensive than how I'm using what I've got. And it wouldn't be less expensive than lapping out one of my existing sizers to the size I want.

I've thought about the NOE bushing sizer. But of course, then I'd have to buy some more accessories for my Bonanza press to be able to use it.

So an NOE bushing sizer, ultimately, would cost me a bit more than having a custom size die made for my Saeco. And seating gas checks would add another step that would still have to be done on my Saeco Lubri-sizer if I opt to go the NOE route.

AND, it couldn't be used to conventionally lube bullets as the custom lubri-sizer die can, if I opt to do conventional lubing rather than powder coating.

NOE is an option of course. But for me at least, there are better options right now, including a custom sized lubri-sizer for less cost, fewer steps involved in sizing/gas check seating.

[smithnframe]

I recently bought a saeco/Redding lubrisizer cause they made a .349 sizing die for my recently acquired Siamese mauser in 348 winchester. Lyman doesn't make one and RCBS makes a special order one that I guess they tool up for once every decade! I had one on backorder at midway for almost a year. Now I have a Lyman 450, an RCBS lubimatic II and the Saeco/Redding on my bench!