The holy grail of boolits for 38/357 revolvers.

[FergusonTO35]

I've never met a .38 that didn't like 3.2 grains Bullseye under a Lyman 358091 or 3.5 grains under just about any 150-158 SWC or RNFP.

[tazman]

I've found that past 25 yards wadcutters wander all over the place...go in sideways...etc. I gave up wadcutters for all but short range target work for this reason.

I loaded up 100 rounds of the 3.5 BE load for testing. If weather permits, I'll test them beyond 25 yards and see what they do on Monday.
I haven't done any testing beyond 25 yards before with any handgun. It will be interesting.

[slughammer]

....
I haven't done any testing beyond 25 yards before with any handgun. It will be interesting.

Without getting too complex beyond the regular basics I'll give 2 bits of advice for your first time.

1, take some different size bullseyes and a larger clean backer. For 25 yards I use a black circle about 2.5" diameter. Out at 50 yards 4-6" diameter. The larger new clean cardboard backer is to get a clean picture with your rear sight notch. Kind of hard to shoot well with an uneven sight picture.

2, consistent grip pressure with both hands. It becomes more important with heavier recoil, but slight variences in grip will affect how the gun moves and then groups downrange.

Other than that, all the basics still apply. Have fun!

[tazman]

Without getting too complex beyond the regular basics I'll give 2 bits of advice for your first time.

1, take some different size bullseyes and a larger clean backer. For 25 yards I use a black circle about 2.5" diameter. Out at 50 yards 4-6" diameter. The larger new clean cardboard backer is to get a clean picture with your rear sight notch. Kind of hard to shoot well with an uneven sight picture.

2, consistent grip pressure with both hands. It becomes more important with heavier recoil, but slight variences in grip will affect how the gun moves and then groups downrange.

Other than that, all the basics still apply. Have fun!

Noted.
I will probably use a piece of poster board and some 4 inch stick on bullseyes for the first run because I don't know where the boolits will hit the target.
I have the revolvers sighted in for about 12-15 yards. I would expect them to be close to center at 25 yards. At 50 yards, I have no idea what to expect.
I could use a B27 silhouette and may do that just for grins anyway.
For 50 yards, I will probably start off with the revolver rested. I shake too much to get decent groups at a distance without one. Getting old is a tough game.

[StrawHat]

This might help.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/...rge-wadcutter/

Many decades ago when I was a cop, I remember talking with several coroners. Those that carried a firearm, carried a 38 Special loaded with wadcutters based on what they had seen on their tables. I reasoned the full charge WC load would be better

Kevin

[FergusonTO35]

I've been using 3.1 grains Accurate Nitro 100 under a 150 grain Lee SWC in my Charter and S&W snubbies. Clocks 680 fps, very accurate and easy to shoot. Will try it in my larger revolvers soon.

[tazman]

This might help.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/...rge-wadcutter/

Many decades ago when I was a cop, I remember talking with several coroners. Those that carried a firearm, carried a 38 Special loaded with wadcutters based on what they had seen on their tables. I reasoned the full charge WC load would be better

Kevin

Back in the late 70s through the 80s I had conversations with serving police officers who said the same thing.
If they were allowed to carry magnum loads, they did so. Otherwise, their choice was wadcutter ammunition.
Of course, bullets have come quite a ways since then and performance has increased. The full power wadcutter will still perform well and can be produced by any boolit caster with good results.

[9.3X62AL]

Other than the Lymans #358432 and #313492, I haven't done a lot with cast WCs. I have a 1# coffee can full of soft #358063s cast up by Buckshot some years back--they span .363"+, and have seen some use in my Webley-Enfield and S&W M&P in 38 S&W, and in the small-frame 38 S&Ws I have here. Early in my reloading and casting experience I heard the Siren Song of Elmer Keith and his SWC, and as far as wheelgun missiles are concerned I kinda got hooked to that addiction. Having seen a large number of bullet wounds either in trauma rooms or autopsy suites over the years, I can't say that any design of bullet does any recipient any good whatsoever. Debating the WC/SWC/RN/R-FN merits vis-a-vis JHP/FMJ-RN/FMJ/TC burns up bandwidth and dries a lot of printer's ink, but whether it makes a difference in a given shooting situation is meat for the experts to chew over. My carry calibers all either run their 125 grain 36 caliber bullets at 1200 FPS+, or their caliber title starts with a 4 as its first numeral.

[avogunner]

A gifted 4C 358432 (148gr version) is what started me on my cast journey 30+ years ago. While I'm still learning from the good folks here, there is one thing that has sunk in …. for me, this is 1/3 of the perfect .38 caliber boolit trifecta. Along with the 358156 and 358311, they fit any and all of my needs. 3.2gr of Bullseye has been my standard for this WC for all of that time and I don't think I could improve on it. Great boolit and good luck with your casting!!
Semper Fi

[tazman]

I got to the range today and took my chronograph with me. I only had the loads with Bullseye and Winchester 231 with me but that was enough to get some idea what is going on.
The velocities were all over the place depending on the revolver used. K frame Target Masterpiece with 6 inch barrel, 686-3 with 8 & 3/8 inch barrel, 686+ with 6 inch barrel, and Ruger Security Six with 6 inch barrel.
The 686-3 with the long barrel consistently produced the lowest velocities followed by the Target Masterpiece, the Ruger, and the 686+ with the highest velocities.
The Bullseye loads averaged 775fps, 816fps, 825fps, and 836fps for the respective revolvers.
The 231 loads averaged 805fps, 829fps, 840fps, and 866fps for the respective revolvers.
All the guns grouped well at 15 yards. When I moved back to 25 yards the groups began to open up as one would expect, with the slower velocities opening more. None of the groups were really bad at this point.
When I moved to 50 yards the groups opened up considerably except for the fastest load in the 686+. It shot two 7 shot 4 inch groups at 50 yards. The other revolvers were on paper(B27 silhouette target)but not in what I would consider a good group.
None of the boolits missed the paper and none of them keyholed. Total of about 80 shots.
It appears that the faster this boolit flies, the better it shoots at distance. The speed is going to be limited by the powder and boolit combination and the attributes of the particular firearm.
All test shooting was done from a rest.
Next I will test some different boolit nose styles and see what they do at distance.
I already know what the magnums will do with magnum loads, so testing them with 38 special loads will be interesting.
It may be that I will need to restrict the wadcutter loads to shorter range. Since that is the expected usage for this boolit/gun combination, the results are more than adequate. The distance from my bedroom door to the center of the living room is about 30 feet.

[Walks]

I keep seeing these molds on flea Bay. So they must have been popular in the good old days.
When I started my own casting & reloading setup after Military Service. I bought a 2cav #358495 as this bullet was almost an duplicate of the H&G #50, that I grew up on.
It was accurate, but not as accurate as a Factory Swaged W/C. I could never quite match them. I tried clean pure 20/1 alloy too. Tried a #358395 HB that I borrowed from my DAD. Dipper cast or bottom pour.
I even tried pressure casting on the bottom pour. All sized .358dia.

I got my hands on a S&W 14 - 6"bbl with a .357 bore and 6 perfect .357 chamber mouths. I could put 6 Factory HBWC's into one hole at 25yrds. I prefered Hornady HBWC to the speer. Didn't seem to matter when HORNADY changed the design to full knurled bearing surface and dry lube.

In those days (40yrs ago) I was shooting 200-500rds a week, 2-3 times a week. Had perfect vision and rock steady hands.

To be young again.

Youth is truly wasted on the young.

[tazman]

My eyes were never perfect. I have never had rock steady hands. I didn't have the time or the money to shoot enough when I was young.
I will never know how accurate my guns are since my capabilities aren't up to the task. All I can do is get the best situation that will work for me.
I didn't know I was capable of shooting a 4 inch group at 50 yards with a handgun until today. Even from a rest. That is normally rifle range for me.
I just do the best I can and try to get better. It is a long process when you have as many bad habits as I do.

[RogerDat]

Funny you should mention the distance from bedroom to living room and not being a bullseye punching shooter at distance. My wife will shoot a bit, enjoys it for a little while but isn't that interested in building it into a highly developed skill. My focus with her and her focus is put all shots in a body mass size target at ranges similar to from bedroom to living room.

Once had a friend over who was lounging laid back on the couch. He picked up a fairly large target peppered with holes, and passing it up to me asked who's target was it, comment that it did not have many bullseyes. I said it was wife's then dropped target back on his chest and asked "how many missed?" it then became apparent that none would have missed his upper body which was the point of that target time.

I also encourage her to put in some time with the 20 gauge shotgun. Considering there is a hallway to funnel any target stupid enough to proceed against the snick-snick of a pump shotgun in a tight corridor the shotgun seems a good option.

Myself I too just want to improve. Don't think I will have the time to devote that would allow me to develop great shooting ability, and by the time I retire and have time I'm guessing the physical decline I already experience will have gotten worse not better. Getting old sure ain't for sissies that's for sure. I just need to be able to shoot well enough to make up for the fact that I can't go several rounds of bare knuckles in a parking lot to resolve threat any more and my running ability has gotten pretty pathetic.

That desire to do "a little better" is why I appreciate the thoughtful testing that other members do. It provides me an excuse to go and try some new load with an extra focus on my part of the accuracy. As opposed to my normal habit of whole shooting session degenerating into scaring cans on a rail.

[Tracy]

I think that's the mould I have; I'll have to dig it out and see. Mine weighs 160 grains. It shoots well in my .35 Whelen too.
I actually bought it in the flea market of the Dayton Hamvention, over 20 years ago.

[Drm50]

I have 32-38-44-45 Lyman button nose WC molds. 90% of my shooting is done with them. Actually I cast most soft and are for Target loads. I have cast them hard for 357 & 45 to hunt with. I loaded 45colt at 950fps and shot a deer with Dead results. My brother has a 10x K38 with scope. With hard cast at approx 900fps he can bust clay pigeons at 100yds all day long. I have been looking for a similar mold in 41 to see what it will do in 57.
I have several other WC molds, I don't like the double ender or styles with no grease grooves. Don't like the Lee WC molds but my Bro likes them in his m16 S&W.

[MT Gianni]

I consider three levels for the 38/357.
1] Wadcutters, HB, Lee or anyone elses there's not a lot of difference
2] 358477, RCBS 150 KT or what ever else you want to call it. A 150-158 gr swc with three equal bands,
3] LBT 180 fn, seen in various forms as a Lee group buy, NOE and MiHec have also run similar.

[sniper]

I've found that past 25 yards wadcutters wander all over the place...go in sideways...etc. I gave up wadcutters for all but short range target work for this reason.

That was my experience with HBWC years ago, and I haven't used them since.

But...in the True Spirit of Never Leaving Well-Enough Alone, and after reading Ed Harris' article on full charge Wadcutters, I have the urge to try again. I tried Bullseye, and didn't like it . Not trying to cause a debate here, just stating my preference.

I don't cast any more, and am running out of my supply of the RCBS KT38 150gr. SWC. Can anyone suggest a commercial source for that bullet ~12 BHN?

Now; back to the subject of this thread. Can anyone suggest a source for full wadcutter boolits of a weight and shape that have proven passably accurate in a majority of guns, or doesn't it mater much? I don't have time or inclination to test dozens of boolits for "accuracy", because at 80, I don't buy green bananas any more!

I now have Unique, Universal, Trail Boss and AA#5 powder, and more manuals and load information than I can ever possibly use. Any recommendations for Wadcutter loads using those powders: 357 brass, standard primers, 4" barrel ~ 800 fps?
Thanx!

[cwlongshot]

I have been enjoying the Lyman 358429 with 6 grs of Bullseye special case loaded to mag length.

Shoots sub sonic even from a 10” Contender. Clean and accurate. Mine are Powder Coated.



CW

[Petrol & Powder]

That was my experience with HBWC years ago, and I haven't used them since.

But...in the True Spirit of Never Leaving Well-Enough Alone, and after reading Ed Harris' article on full charge Wadcutters, I have the urge to try again. I tried Bullseye, and didn't like it . Not trying to cause a debate here, just stating my preference.

I don't cast any more, and am running out of my supply of the RCBS KT38 150gr. SWC. Can anyone suggest a commercial source for that bullet ~12 BHN?

Now; back to the subject of this thread. Can anyone suggest a source for full wadcutter boolits of a weight and shape that have proven passably accurate in a majority of guns, or doesn't it mater much? I don't have time or inclination to test dozens of boolits for "accuracy", because at 80, I don't buy green bananas any more!

I now have Unique, Universal, Trail Boss and AA#5 powder, and more manuals and load information than I can ever possibly use. Any recommendations for Wadcutter loads using those powders: 357 brass, standard primers, 4" barrel ~ 800 fps?
Thanx!

Before I started casting, I shot a truckload or two of commercial HBWC's; mostly Speer and Horandy. I had excellent results. Most of that was with WW231.

I've all but abandoned the HBWC and when I occasionally need some I purchase them. Solid wadcutters are a different story. They perform well and can be safely pushed much faster (which makes them more useful over a wide range of velocities).

As for a commercially available full WC around 12 BHn, I would look at Missouri Bullet :

http://missouribullet.com/details.ph...=5&secondary=9

[sagamore-one]

Well, I am not a fan of full wad cutter boolits.
I find the Lee 166gr SWC to shoot extremely well at all distances and all velocities and with all revolvers in my collection. They make a shorter 140 gr and even shorter 105 gr of the same boolit design. The 166 excels at ranges over 100 yards and is my "go to " boolit.