Roll Crimp

[joatmon]

Any one got a pic of the working end of a drill operated roll crimper?
Thanks Aaron

[Der Gebirgsjager]

[dsh1106]

Here are a few Lyman/Ideal roll crimping heads

[W.R.Buchanan]

The BPI tool only has one bump (a roll pin) BPI also makes a 2 pin version. The Lyman has 6 bumps don't know how they did that. Some tools have 3-4 "Ramps".

The thing I like about the BPI Tool is that it makes a nice taper on the front end of the Hull which helps feeding. The top of the shell has a relatively square edge. My Lyman tool leaves a rounded crimp but no taper on the hull.

The BPI tool seems to work best on the thinner skived hulls like Rio's or Fiocchi's whereas the Lyman tool works better on AA's and STS Hulls that have thicker plastic requiring more time to heat.

Speed that you turn these is somewhat critical. Most work right at about 150-300 rpms. However I also have a Hand Operated tool that you crank, and it is nothing near even 60 rpms. It is the Russian one that has the Ramps to push the hull mouth around. It works OK but not as well as the machine turned ones.

There was a good in depth thread I started a while back that had just about everything we know about Roll Crimping in it. You might search it out.

Here's what good roll crimps look like. The first pic has a Factory Blue Federal Crimp the other shell has my BPI crimp. You see the difference from the side and tops. The next two are Winchester AA hulls using the Lyman Tool, and you'll note how the top edge is rounded. The last two are examples of shells I took apart to see what the slugs looked like and then reloaded into the same brand of hull using the BPI tool. Versus what Lightfield and Brenneke use. You can see the differences in the crimps.

Randy

[trapper9260]

Do you lube the tool to roll the hulls if so what you use to lube it with . I have the BPI ones. also will help the OP for when they look to use one

[dsh1106]

Vaseline

[RED BEAR]

I bought a cheap one off ebay with only one pin. It was the first time i tried to roll crimp so not sure if i was doing it right or i got what i paid for but maybe practice will give m]e better results

[Moonie]

I have the 2 pin version from BPI and it works well. I've purchased a drill press since I last used it and I'm interested to see how well it works using it rather than a hand drill.

[trapper9260]

Vaseline

Thank you for letting me know . That will help alot . Before I had heat up the tool some just on the warm side and then roll the hull.

[Taylor]

I bought a cheap one off ebay with only one pin. It was the first time i tried to roll crimp so not sure if i was doing it right or i got what i paid for but maybe practice will give m]e better results

I have the BPI and my crimps look like yours. I ain't happy about it either. I did add 2 bumps using roll pins. I just can't make it work to suit me. My hand crank does a much better job. I have the MEC slugger in 12 ga and really like it. Plan on one in 20 also.

[RED BEAR]

I was going to buy the bpi but saw one on ebay for $10 so gave it a try pictures are not that good you can't see there is a lip that sticks out to the side on the crimp. I will try heating it up and maybe a little Vaseline.

[turtlezx]

??? why do shooters want a roll crimp why not just fold crimp?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Mine came out great using the BPI tool, which is the only one I've got. The hulls were once fired buckshot. I did the job on a floor model drill press, and used an old Lyman shell resizing die to let me hold the hull more firmly. I just stuck the hull that already contained the powder, wad, shot column into the die so the top was sticking out the top of the die, then added the overshot wad and got good results with the base of the hull sitting on the drill press table and grasping the die against the rotation of the chuck. I did do a couple of boxes without the die for a holder, but it was getting hard on the fingers. For a lube I used G96 Gun Oil. Just saturated a Q-tip with the oil, and ran it lightly around the top edge of the open hull before applying the drill press. With experience I found it necessary to only lube about every third hull, as some oil remained inside the rolling tool. The end result has the nice end taper as can be seen on the shell on the far right of the photo.

I knew almost nothing about shotshell reloading, but was gifted two large cardboard boxes of once fired hulls by a law enforcement range officer, and eventually decided to do something with them. I had reloaded metallic cartridges for many years, but didn't even notice that some of the hulls were fold crimp and some were roll crimp. I posted some photos on this forum and a couple of members pointed out the difference and educated me on the necessity to use the appropriate method to reload each type. I already had a brand new Lee Loadall which worked great for the hulls that had been fold crimped, almost not at all on the hulls that had originally been roll crimped. The BPI tool did a great job.

I also acquired 3 paperback books, Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook, Reloading For Shotgunners, and Shotshells & Ballistics. The Lyman book is almost a "must have". It is specific as to exactly what to use in what hull for what load, and so far I haven't had the problem of the components not filling the case enough to get a good crimp for either type of crimp.

Looking at your blue colored hull (above post) I'd say that perhaps the column of components inside the hull aren't long enough. You have to fill the hull so the component level is right up to the bottom of where the roll crimp will be when finished. The clear overshot wad is a really nice touch as you can see what's in the shell at a glance.

I loaded up what is probably a lifetime supply of shells for me, a couple of cases, as I don't shoot shotguns that often. It's a lot of fun, as much as reloading metallic cases, and the variety of components available almost boggle the mind.

[centershot]

??? why do shooters want a roll crimp why not just fold crimp?

A fold crimp requires a wad column height that precisely matches the hull being used. Too high or too short and you get bad crimps. A roll crimp adjusts itself to the wad column, so column height isn't as critical.

[trapper9260]

I do fold and got into roll for the fact that some short shells need to roll is easyer then try to fold also some fold hulls it is easy to turn to roll when trim.

[RED BEAR]

I usually fold but on loads that don't quite fit roll is the answer.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you are having problems with you BPI tool there are a few things to look at.

1. Speed: They work best 150-300 rpms.

2. Holding the hull: You need some kind of a clamp or vise or else your shell will tip to one side and or slip in your hand.

3. Alignment: The crimp tool must be in alignment with the hull and it is easier to get this right with a Drill Press or Mill than with a Hand held Drill Motor.

4. Make all your shells the same length: Then you can set a stop on your Drill Press so you don't over do it and crush the Hull.

5. Overshot cards: A stiff over shot card works better than a flimsy one. The crimp likes something flat and square to bottom out on.

6. New skived hulls or hulls that were fired that were roll crimped to begin with, crimp better than hulls that were originally fold crimped. Hulls like AA's and STS's are thicker plastic and the fold crimp is more heavily embedded than with the thinner hulls. This can be cured to a degree by trimming the mouth of the hull back 1/16 to 1/8".

In the pics below you can see how the crimp has folded down and is in contact with the front edge of the slug. These were new Rio Primed Hulls which cost .11 each. Reusing poor hulls is hardly worth it. IN the other picture you can see a factory load Brenneke Slug and one that I reloaded after taking it apart. I used a new Rio Hull and it is identical to the Brenneke hull in every way. The Orange Hulls were the same thing done with Lightfield Ammo. Both of those outfits use Rio hulls for their factory loaded ammo. I see no difference between theirs and mine.

These are just some tips and I'm sure others can comment on more.

Randy

[joatmon]

Thanks all for the great info. I've wanted to make one on the lathe for a while but never found a pic showing the work side.

Aaron

[Retumbo]

I think that someone had posted plans on how to make one

[RED BEAR]

Yea i plan on sticking with it until i get it right . Thanks for the tips.