Why are the only good Muslims, moderate Muslims?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

There's a question to contemplate.

Whenever you read or hear some bad news about Muslim extremists blow up yadda-yadda, beheading bla-blah, shooting yakkity-yak - you will soon hear the saw, "There are plenty of moderate Muslims."

This question popped into my head one day and I came to the realization that you judge a belief system by its extremists, not its moderates.

Extremist Marxists = Stalin, Lenin, Mao, etc.

Extremist Muslims = Osama Bin Laden, ISIS

So if you want to know if a belief system is good or not, just examine its extremists and their lives will tell you where that belief system will lead you.

Who are your extremists?

[GARD72977]

Mike Pence........ He looks people in the eye and tells them what he believes. All this without a safe place for millennials to recover.

[Winger Ed.]

The moderates of any group are irrelevant.

They are the ones who do nothing as history is being written---- good or bad.

[Shawlerbrook]

A more important question is why moderate Muslims do not take a more assertive stand against the extremists? Also, are the extremists are small percentage of the entire Muslim population?

[1hole]

Whenever you read or hear some bad news about Muslim extremists blow up yadda-yadda, beheading bla-blah, shooting yakkity-yak - you will soon hear the saw, "There are plenty of moderate Muslims."

Perhaps it would help if we accurately define "moderates" from "radical" Muslims and the easily read teachings of the Koran.

First, civilized people need to understand that Mohommad and his Koran specify that Islam is destined to eventually dominate the world either by conversion or the sword. That means all who are not Muslim are to humble themselves before Muslims AND pay a hefty "tax" for the privilige of being allowed to live ... for a time. Those of us who refuse or cannot pay are to be immediately beheaded. Everyone who pays but refuses conversion to the end are to be murdered after their madi (antichrist) arrives. (Any Muslim who disagrees with that is NOT living by the Koran and are themselves subject to being killed as apostates.)

Thus the only real difference between Islamic "moderates" and "radicals" is a matter of slaughter timing; today's radicals say to kill us now and the moderates say it's still too early. But they all expect to eventually kill us so I find little comfort in the difference.

Those who say peaceful Islamic "moderates" are harmless are fools.

[Hickory]

The bad Muslims (48%) want to kill you, the good Muslims won't kill you but think its alright if the bad Muslims kill you.

[jmort]

[Outpost75]

A number of influences lead toward jihad, a term which is used incorrectly in the west today as a PC disinformation term used to avoid implying that jihad is actually part and parcel of Islam. Jihad is better translated as Holy War, and was the instrument which allowed Mohammed to create his empire.

Becoming a warrior of the faithful (a Jihadi) is influenced by family and tribal religious practice (how closely they follow the Quran), by the skill and influence of their Mullah, Imam and Sheiks (sifted through their individual personalities). If they are “hellfire and brimstone” teachers of the Quran and the Hadith, and if a young man is from a judgmental family (particularly if it is well off, there is then a duty to act for the community as a payback for Allah’s giving of success to them). They are then on their way to becoming a Defender of the Faith(ful).

The Quran is considered to be divinely inspired and to be perfect in all respects. Criticism or challenge of it is not allowed and can lead to unpleasant demise in a community ruled by Sharia. The Quran basically proscribes engaging in holy war against any and all nonbelievers. In Moslem communities education is traditionally only for males; in poorer communities often the only literate person is the Mullah. No one else in the village has the ability to garner information which might question the Mullah’s interpretation of the Quran, or of world events or whatever.

Westerners have been brainwashed and lied to about Islam for years. Jihad is normal, being part and parcel of practicing Islam properly. ISIS followed a strict interpretation of the Quran; anybody in village they captured who was known to not pray five times a day was executed. Practiced as written, there is only one Islam, and no such thing as moderate Islam. Traditionally, to avoid internal challenges to a regime, young men are encouraged to wage Jihad somewhere else, and money is sent out of the country to pay for the training, weapons and indoctrination of the warriors.

We haven’t seen much rebellion in Saudi, correct? This is because the Saudis follow the old formula - bin Laden was a perfect example. Nonbelievers are considered subhuman, so it is permissible to kill them in any way desired.

Arab nations tend to have a vulnerable military organization because, unlike in the US military, where lower ranks are prepared and expected to move up in role, should they lose their leaders, in today's Arab armies, junior officers in particular, are reluctant to share technical knowledge with their subordinates because they regard that knowledge as the means by which they hold their sinecures.

A classmate shared a story from his stint in Egypt, where he was an engineer sent to help the Egyptians gear up to produce their down-armored version of the M1 Abrams tank. One day he ventured into the manufacturing area and saw a barefoot worker up on a steel beam, painting it with "red lead," to prevent rusting. He sought out the man's supervisor to point out the breach in safety protocols, particularly the lack of a safety harness. A while later, he returned to the scene and found the man working as before except that this time, he had a roped tied around his waist, dangling toward the ground. Inshallah.

Mohammedans have a different culture which is remarkably consistent and driven by the In sha Allah (if God Wills it) attitude. This arises from environmental contextual issues of their God providing everything from sustenance, shelter, wives, and victory or defeat in battle. They entirely surrender the idea of individual agency. This attitude permeates every aspect of life. It’s evident in the more unsavory aspects of treating women and children as chattel, and their obsession with pederasty.

I don’t agree with or attempt to understand this culture because it’s anathema to my own. I read an English translation of Koran and Hadith in effort to learn behavioral foundations as a predictive tool for when dealing with GREEN “coalition” troops, and predicting red “Opfor” action. I suspect much is lost in translation. With the above caveat about culture, I offer useful collective generalizations.

1. Most Moslem people tend to avoid direct conflict, verbal or otherwise. They won’t say NO directly, rather in sha Allah. They don’t fight unless it’s in raid or ambush. They won’t stand ground in the face of superior fires. That doesn’t mean they won’t fight well or bravely; it just means they use deception very well to gain tactical advantage in war, business, or social interaction.

2. Their women will do whatever is required to protect and feed their kids. Sometimes those things are horrifying to western men.

3. Unmarried military aged males are easily influenced and prone to violence. Involuntary celibacy probably has a lot to do with that because it is a big cultural issue for them. Young men go to great lengths to gain honorable distinction and income to pay the bride price (even if it’s only for the temporary Mohammedan marriage that we in the West call prostitution). So tribal and religious leaders can mobilize young men fairly easily; offering limited options for fulfillment of a young man’s deepest desires.

The Distilled assessment.

1. Mohammedan culture is very different. Mirror image analysis will fail every time. Predict their behavior by using their cultural heuristics, of which honor falls behind only food, shelter, and sex in Their hierarchy.

2. They fight differently. Deception is a strength used to gain tactical advantage and seize initiative. Lying to anyone outside the tribe is NOT a sin, but a desirable character trait. Ambush isn’t cowardly, it’s smart.

3. They don’t take personal responsibility at all. It’s In sha Allah, or the fault of the thing or third party. The truck ran over a child because the truck was defective, or it was God’s will, or both; never because the driver erred. This bleeds into the martyrdom idea. If one dies in jihad (holy war against the infidel or apostate), there is a reward in heaven for serving Allah faithfully unto death. This is foundational. The suicide bomber gains this reward and renown, while his parents reap some financial compensation and fame as the equivalent of a Gold Star parent.

Mohammedan culture is completely incompatible with classical western culture that values the individual and achievement. But, it’s not at all incompatible with the range of collectivist statism philosophies (Marxism, Maoism, Democratic Socialism), which explains the current nexus of politics in some states like Michigan or mega cities like London.

For anyone interested in learning more about Islam without a pc lens interfering, there used to be a site titled religionofpeace.com which explained, among other things, how the Quran justifies everything from lying to murder by believers when dealing with non believers. You will probably have trouble finding it, because recently there've been many attempts to take it down. After recent events in NZ, it will certainly be called a site of intolerance and racism. A true believer regards any information contrary to their belief in the Quran as a divine document as blasphemous and deserving of the death of the blasphemer. Another site of value is the glazov gang, hosted by Jamie Glazov and which deals with Iran and Shia Islam. His broadcasts are still on You Tube.

Re suicide bombers. Under Islam, no one goes to paradise (heaven) until judgment day, except for those killed in holy war, the definition of which is quite loose. People who are poor are over represented in the ranks of bombers (as there is financial incentive in the form of payment to the bombers family). Young men in poor families cannot buy wives (if you have resources, you are allowed up to four - this makes the availability of young women effectively zero). So these young men are a drain on the resources of the family and tribe, with only homosexuality, beastiality or pederasty for sexual outlet, no way to make a steady living and little hope of change.
Desperation is easily manipulated by the Mullah. BTW, well off Moslems do not desire a lower class with education or opportunity. Neither does the religious hierarchy.

With the power of social media we can expect suicide bombers recruited in the west, who appear to be kids who couldn’t find their way in the world, and adopting strong Islamic beliefs (which blame the west for all of the kids problems) gives them a more powerful, purposeful sense of self than they’ve heretofore had. ISIS used mentally retarded people (of all ages and both genders) to wear the vests; I suspect that drugs are commonly used to get some of them to put on “the last suit they’ll ever wear”.

[fiberoptik]

“Good” muslims don’t want to rock the boat . They are afraid of the radical ones coming after them if they speak out against radicals. One radical shows up and the rest all fall inline just to save their own skins. Like the movies always show store owners paying “protection” $$. Wolves aren’t afraid of sheep.


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[Walks]

Met a Man almost 40yrs ago. He and his Family fled Iran after Khomeini follower's overthrew the Legal Ruler; the Shah.
He told me all the wealthy and middle class that could, fled before the Iman's and their filthy followers killed them in their sleep.

Fortunately his Father was prepared as soon as the that religious fanatic returned. They rented a private plane and fled with their Families and money and all the personal belongings that would fit.

The American CIA told the Shah that Khomeini would not cause problems.

We all know now they were wrong. And all of the United States and Western Europe have paid for it ever since. And we continue to pay for it.

As it goes worse and worse. They exploit the West's Freedoms to use against us.
And the Liberals are helping them.

I honestly believe we should send those Liberals into the mohammadens enclaves they have allowed to exist and grow in their own countries, at their personal expense. And find out what these people are really like.

Moderate Muslims? Those are the ones that beg for asylum and handouts.

And after lying to get them they turn around and claim they are being oppressed in the Free Western Nations that offer Sanctuary to these poor "refugees".

And yet every other "refugee" is a single unattached male between 20yrs - 40yrs. Fighting age.

I hate auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

[nicholst55]

I do believe Outpost75 nailed it. I'd enjoy sharing an adult beverage with him someday, and discuss some of the things we've seen and done.

[JSnover]

Since the Muslim conquest has gone global, maybe it's now a question of which faction will remain after the ashes have cooled? The "extremist" muslims believe they're behaving as Allah would wish - that the "moderates" are corrupting the religion.
The extremists named in post #1 were actually Good Socialists and Good Muslims. They knew what it was all about and didn't waste any time or shed any tears getting to the point.

[Winger Ed.]

The bad Muslims (48%) want to kill you, the good Muslims won't kill you but think its alright if the bad Muslims kill you.

On his radio show, Mark Levin occasionally says, the good Muslims will hold your legs while the bad Muslims cut your head off.

[Outpost75]

I do believe Outpost75 nailed it. I'd enjoy sharing an adult beverage with him someday, and discuss some of the things we've seen and done.

When you return CONUS if you get up to Carlisle or DC we can make that happen.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Good post Outpost75.

[wv109323]

The Muslims have no hope in their religion except through Jihad. Unless a Muslim dies in Jihad it will be determined by Mohammend when they die if they go to heaven. In the Christian religion, eternal life is promised in this lifetime.
The extremist are "by the book" Muslims where the infadel must die if he does not convert to Islam. Killing the infadel is the "right" thing to do. Any land once occupied by Muslims throughout history is to be conquired and under Mohammend control. That is the major problem in Israel today over land.
Under Muslim belief, success is a sign of Mohammend's approval. Thus when the terrorists were sucessful on 9-11-2001 when they attacked America that was a green light for the Muslims. Thus we saw the increase in Isis,al-Queda and other terrorist groups. When we whipped the pants off them it was time to retreat back into everyday life.
As stated before a Muslim is permitted and encouraged to do anything to help Mohamed. Thus they will be a snake in the grass until they can strike unwarned. Thus a terror cell is unnoticed until they carry out an attack.
A Muslim will befriend you to make you think they are moderate but will turn to true colors if they have a chance.
These ideas are pounded into their heads from childhood.
There are good people from the Arab countries but beware of any that was brought up as a Muslim. This is not meant to be hateful but just informative.

[RED BEAR]

I for one don't believe there are any moderate muslims. I still remember after 9/11 the dancing in the streets all over the muslim world. I think we should have made a black spot in the desert and came home Afghanistan was won in 3 weeks we should have come home. Rebuild my behind we owe them nothing. If they get belligerent again you make a bigger black spot. Islam is not a peaceful religion at all.

[M-Tecs]

"MUSLIMS CANNOT BE GOOD AMERICANS
Can a good Muslim be a good American?
This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:
Theologically - NO. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia.
Religiously - NO. Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam. (Quran,2:256)(Koran)
Scripturally - NO. Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.
Geographically - NO. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - NO. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - NO. Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - NO. Because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him. (Quran 4:34 )
Intellectually - NO. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - NO. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran does not allow freedom of religion and expression.
Spiritually - NO. Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' The Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.
DEMOCRACY AND ISLAM CANNOT CO-EXIST. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Therefore, after much study and deliberation... Perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and 'good' Americans. Call it what you wish it's still the truth. You had better believe it. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future.
The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!
Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.
SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
THIS MESSAGE NEEDS TO ROLL ALL OVER THE U.S
Qur’an:9:88 – “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”
Qur’an:9:5 - “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
Qur’an:8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”
Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”
Qur’an:8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”
Qur’an:9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.”

[nicholst55]

When you return CONUS if you get up to Carlisle or DC we can make that happen.

I'll take you up on that, eventually. I should be in the Baltimore area this winter for a couple of weeks.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Footnote: The Muslims have said they will destroy us from within.

I see you are from MN, represented by Ilahn Omar. (not that I blame you, but that it supports your footnote)

This is something that I believe is a key to solving the Muslim riddle. We can make a black spot out of Afghanistan all we want, but we're just kicking the problem down the road for our children to solve.

Islam must be confronted on its philosophical grounds. During the Cold War, there was an American bishop who hosted a television show that actually was very popular. On many of his programs he would expose the lies of the Communist Party, and thus serve to educate Americans. His name was Bishop Fulton Sheen.

We also had a Russian defector named Solzhenitsyn who wrote Gulag Archipelago further exposing Communism for its horrors.