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Thread: Leica binoculars

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Leica binoculars

    I took the plunge and scored a pair of Leica binoculars, the Leica Duovid 8x42-12x42. Now I know what it's like to look through some world class glass and think "holy smokes, what have I been missing!"

    Neat in that they can be shifted from 8x to 12x in a second, without losing focus. Image is sharp from edge to edge, brightness like you wouldn't believe.

    Only complaint is about their weight- they're heavy.

  2. #2
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Some years back I saved up to get a set of Zeiss 10x40s.........they are marvelous indeed. With optics you get what you pay for. Once I discovered that I realized with all the money I spent on other "less expensive" bino's that didn't hold up and weren't half as good optically I could have bought the Zeiss 10x40s and been much happier.......

    Last year I sold a couple rifles and got a Nightforce NXS 8x32 MOAR scope as I'd been lusting over one for a while. It too is a marvelous optical instrument. The only down side is looking through the Nightforce makes my old 6.5x20 Leupold target scopes so "last century"........ I'm not saying the Leupolds are good because they are......just saying the Nightforce is sooooo much better........
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Some years back I saved up to get a set of Zeiss 10x40s.........they are marvelous indeed. With optics you get what you pay for. .......
    Truer words have never been spoken.

    With optics you really do get what you pay for. The only way for manufacturers to cut cost is to cut quality. There's just no way around that fact.

    You don't have to spend $2000 to get something "good enough" but you'll never find new optics for $20 that are worth the price.

  4. #4
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    Years ago I bought a pair of LEITZ TRINOVID for $30.00 in pawn shop. I carried these on Patrol,Hunting and now in my truck. It's hard to believe such a small/compact set can be so expensive.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I'll buck the trend. I once had a pair of Leica geovid range finding binos. I can't remember if they were 8 or 10 x. Well long story short I have a pair of leupold BX-1 Mackenzie 10x42 binos, and I don't see much difference. 150.00 dollar binos beat 30.00 binos, but 2000.00 binos have very little over 150.00 binos.

  6. #6
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    lefty o's Avatar
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    great glass is amazing, in a scope or binoculars. problem is, once you get accustomed to great glass, its hard to go back to cheaper stuff.

  7. #7
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    I once had several sets of of binoculars that I could test at the same time.

    A 6X24 pocket binoc of chinese origin. Typical junk that my employer gave everyone in a company celebration.

    7x35 Bushnell Banners so old I paid $19.99 for them as a broke college student. They had been hunted with a lot too and held up well for what I paid.

    7X30 Leupold IF Wind River porro prism glasses

    10x50 Burris Full Field porro prism


    The 6x24 were junk of course

    The Leupolds were about a tie with the Burris glasses but I much preferred the Leupolds. They were smaller and much lighter. In low light the Leupolds might have had a little advantage over the Burris.

    However the Bushnell cheapies were a surprise. They were mostly plastic and were lighter than the Leupolds while being about 30% more bulky. Optically they appeared to be about 98% of the Leupolds and the Burris glasses. If the Burris and Leupolds are 98% of the expensive German glasses I cannot say they are worth the $600 to $1200 price tag. That is based not on oh wow but based on real head to head comparison in field conditions at twilight looking toward the west with the sun below the tree line.
    EDG

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    Bushnell cheapies aren’t 98% as good as high end German glass. Dat bees da fax.

  9. #9
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    The facts are the high end glasses are more wow factor than real.
    Put them on an optical bench and test them.

    BTW ace, it might help if you learned to read what was actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Love Life View Post
    Bushnell cheapies aren’t 98% as good as high end German glass. Dat bees da fax.
    EDG

  10. #10
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    I’m not offended by it.
    Last edited by Love Life; 04-26-2019 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #11
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    Nice stuff is nice
    If you have the money, why not?
    I have
    Athlon
    Nikon
    Vortex
    They are good enough for me, but I do not doubt that the best would be better. They had better be better.
    I am surprised at how well my three $200 plus units perform
    Doubt I will ever step up to the best. Have the $$$, just satisfied with what I have.

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    As I wrote earlier; you don't need to spend thousands of dollars to get something "good enough" but you do have to spend more than $19.99 when it comes optics.

    Spend 30 seconds looking through a cheap pair of binoculars and you will not care. Spend hours looking through cheap glass and you'll understand the importance of quality.

    On the plus side, unless you really abuse them, it' a one time expense to buy better optics.

    I don't buy Schmidt & Bender rifle scopes but I don't buy Tasco either.

  13. #13
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    The thing is, while a cheap optic may seem adequate (and often it is for casual use) with slight aberrations in the lenses (undetectable at first blush) your eyes will tire more quickly during extended periods of viewing. It's indeed the small things that matter most, and German optic engineers have long held the reputation of being the most anal about the small details.

    While it may sound like I was complaining about the weight of these Leicas, it was only in terms of lugging them around. The extra weight, I feel, contributes to steadiness which offsets the handicap of living with an extra pound or so of weight on my chest.

  14. #14
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I will say it's nice to have the money to spend on optics this way. Being on a fixed budget i could never afford to spend this kind of money. But i don't use optics like some so this kind of precision isn't necessary. The best deal on optics i have found were the cheap leupold knock off scopes and binoculars. My understanding that when leupold replaced the equipment in there factory the Chinese bought the old stuff and started making optics. I bought a couple and my brother has a lot of leupold stuff and neither of us could tell the difference. Except mine cost less than $40 bucks.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Please don't get the impression I'm a Daddy Warbucks. I saved my nickels a long time in order to take the plunge. It's the same attitude that brought me to having a nice little collection of superb rifles rather than a basement full of cheap bargain basement guns just so I could say "I own a lot of guns".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    The facts are the high end glasses are more wow factor than real.
    Put them on an optical bench and test them.

    BTW ace, it might help if you learned to read what was actually said.
    id have to disagree with this. while true that after a certain point, small gains in performance cost disproportionately more (like anything else in life). the quality difference is real. do you need it for your uses, can you justify the expense, those are personal questions to answer, but its not just wow factor.

  17. #17
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    Where the top end optics shine is in light gathering and color transmission. I went to a set of big Binoculars (25X100) for spotting in BPCR silhouette a few years ago. Some of the advantages over spotting scopes are Less eye fatigue since both eyes are working together. Less strain. These will show the bullets "trace" as it passes the or hits the target when spotting scopes wont. It does take a heavy tripod to use them to full advantage. Coaches in the Rattle Battle match are limited to 7x or 8X binos and most use lecias, these show the trace better than others.

  18. #18
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    You can claim it if you want but if you cannot actually prove it by comparative testing you are only voicing an opinion. My comments were based on real testing of multiple sets of binoculars on the same day at the same time and place.


    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    id have to disagree with this. while true that after a certain point, small gains in performance cost disproportionately more (like anything else in life). the quality difference is real. do you need it for your uses, can you justify the expense, those are personal questions to answer, but its not just wow factor.
    EDG

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    The facts are the high end glasses are more wow factor than real.
    Put them on an optical bench and test them........
    I have to disagree also.

    I'd known from many hours on the range (military and civilian) that the higher end scopes always gave better resolution, light gathering and color transmission. As mentioned, a quick look them does not tell the tale. Spend some time looking through them and you will tell the difference because it is, indeed, real and not just a "wow factor".

    When I was saving my money (gift certificates for BDs, father days and Christmas's) I was able, because I knew the owner well, to take, over a 2 year period in varying light and weather conditions, different binoculars out onto the street in front of the gunshop to "test" them. They were the mid range and top end from all the makers. The price range ran from $200 upwards of $1100 for the Zeiss, Swarovski and Leica's........the Zeiss I bought are now selling for $2,000+. On the street I was able to view 1/2+ mile down the street. The difference and at what distance I could see the veins in the leaves of the trees was commensurate with the quality and cost. I always found the Zeiss to give the best performance with my eyes.

    A few months after purchasing the Zeiss 10x40s I found myself with a friend in elk season early one crisp morning at daybreak on the rim overlooking the Imnaha river in NE Oregon. Up the canyon we could see a herd of elk coming up out of the canyon (it's only about 2/3 mile deep there) about 2000 - 3000 yards away. I saw a spike bull com up onto a bench and told my friend "there's a spike on that bench". He looked through his Swarovski 10x40s and said "naw, that's a cow." I said "No, it's a bull. I can see the spikes." He said to let him look with my Zeiss so we traded binoculars. I could not see the spikes through the Swarovski's. He looked and then lowering the Zeiss and staring at them he said "****" these are nice!!!!" After a lengthy stalk I killed that spike.

    The low end (not the cheap ones) and mid range scopes and bino's of today are probably as good if not better than the top end ones of yesteryear. However, the top end are still the best and that's not just a "wow".........
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  20. #20
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    OK I'd like to add my .02 to this conversation. The one significant factor in Optics is Light Transmission. This is normally attributed to the quality and type of glass used in the lenses, however in the last 10 or so years there have been major advances in "Coatings" that increase light transmission greatly. These coating are much less expensive than super high grade Fluorite Glass thus less expensive optics can have similar brightness to higher grade optics. Differences in light transmission are 1-3% at most. This is an area of Diminishing Returns for sure and will be supplanted by Electronic Image Enhancement within the next 20 years which will end in "effectively artificial" 100% light transmission. Direct 100% transmission is unobtainable.

    Right now Image Clarity can only be improved by using higher grade glass and higher level inspection techniques during lens grinding.

    Most inexpensive optics are now manufactured in China on Japanese made machines supervised by Japanese Opticians. This will probably change in the next few years as the Chinese Steal the technology. (I maintain that the Chinese have never had an Original Idea since Gunpowder, and I am reasonably sure they stole that from some Mongolian Goat Farmer!!!)

    The really good stuff is either made in Japan or Germany. The Germans led the way and Zeiss and other camera makers have been at the forefront of optical technology for a long time. The Japanese have followed and Fujinon makes really good Binos.

    I have a bunch of Binos, Telescopes and Scope Sights. They range from some small binos and monos I keep in my cars or range bags for use whenever the need arises and which ranged in price from $20-40 and are fine for looking at the stuff I look at from my car.

    I also have some more expensive Binos, Vortex 10x40's ($250) which are really good and yield a better image than my 8x30 Steiners I got on sale at Big 5 30 years ago for $99! New Steiner's are better than old Steiner's because the newer glass is better (time improves certain stuff and glass is a big one.)

    I got some Minox Binos made in Germany 10x25's for $79 on closeout from LAPG for $75 and they are as good as the Vortex 10x40s.

    There are 11x80 Meads that are Astro Binos for looking at the stars but also work well in a terrestrial applications and yield a stunning image because they are huge. 5+ lbs and must be mounted on a tripod cuz you can't hold them steady for any length of time. These Binos cut thru haze in the atmosphere very well, as do my two telescopes. A Celestron C5 and a Unitron 100MM Refractor. I have literally been able to pick out Sheep on the Channel Islands (Anacapa) from the Cross in Ventura on and exceptionally clear day. That was 14-15 miles away across the ocean! The air was clear that day for sure.

    With optics the higher the magnification the more stuff in the air gets amplified, also movement gets amplified as well.

    Lefty O's statement above is very true. With optics you can pay alot for a super high quality image but if you are only going to look for goats in the pasture next door you really don't need to spend that much.

    The difference between the cheapest optics you can buy at Walmart for $20-30 and optics in the $250 range is noticeable IF you know what you are looking at. If you don't know what you are looking at it is pointless to spend the extra money because You won't be able to tell the difference. There is only about 2-4% difference in the light transmission between the cheap stuff and the not as cheap stuff and the clarity of the lenses is virtually unseeable without optical instrumentation like EDG said. Cheap stuff tends to be distorted near the edges of the lenses better stuff not so much. I got a Millet 1-6 X scope last year (made in China) and the image is excellent all the way to the edges. It was $160 and the image is easily as good as my 3-9X Leupold that cost me $600!

    I have 6 Bushnell TRS 25 Red Dot Sights that I paid between $60 and $90 each for. I would not hesitate to buy another if I needed it. They are excellent value for the money and are direct copies of Aimpoint Red Dots at 1/6th the price. Also made in China.

    All that said the Best Binos I have ever looked thru were Zeiss 10x42 Dialytes. Which they stopped making 20 years ago. I have tried to find a pair for years and the going price on Ebay for a decent set is $500-600. The images in these optics are clear and sharp all the way to the edges and once they are set to your eyes they are always in focus so there is no adjusting. This is a valuable feature as you are never wondering if you are in perfect focus,, You just are, so you spend you time looking for the twitching ear in the brush instead of constantly playing with the focus. My Steiners are also like this but not as good an image. And I am splitting hairs here.

    Even the new Zeiss Binos all have focus adjustment presumably to lower costs however they are still $2000+

    The average person will not be able to see the difference unless he is trained to see the difference, and even then he may not need to see the individual hairs on the Fly's butt. He might be content just seeing the fly.

    I guess my point is that the observable differences between the cheap stuff and the mid range stuff is minimal. The difference between the mid range stuff and the really good stuff is also minimal but the offset in cost is much greater for the small increase in Image Quality that all but the most discerning users would never be able to take advantage of.

    You can get a pretty good set of Binos for $250-400 ! You can also get a "usable" set of binos for <$100 Certainly good enough for 95% of the people who use them.

    End of my .02!

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 04-26-2019 at 11:12 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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