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Thread: The little 25/20 - Obsolete??

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Um, a .25 ACP die will size the neck down too much, won't it? The .25 ACP bullet is .250 diameter, not .257
    Cognitive Dissident

  2. #62
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Um, a .25 ACP die will size the neck down too much, won't it? The .25 ACP bullet is .250 diameter, not .257
    Yes it sizes down and you loose case life by having to expand case mouth. The best way to solve over working the cases is to take a junk/odd die for a 257 cal cartridge and cut it off in a lathe. Used cut off wheel to part it and face off in lathe. Dies are some hard stuff. Then use the cut off die for neck sizing only. There have been universal neck sizing dies available but never saw one that would work on 25/20 because of shortness of brass.
    On some of these projects you have to DIY a extended shell holder. I didn't have a 256win set at the time it may work for a 25/20 neck sizer but I never tried it.

  3. #63
    Boolit Man ofreen's Avatar
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    Or you can get one of these. It didn't cost that much, and this example doesn't overly resize the neck -
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0383.jpg  

  4. #64
    Boolit Buddy DrDucati's Avatar
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    I've bought Remington ammo from Natchez when no one else had it (25-20). I've also bought cases from Load-X.

  5. #65
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    I sent an email to starline asking if they planned on selling 25-20. Within a few hours they replied that Load-x would sell me some and they even shared the phone number. I'd still like to be able to buy it directly from starline but at least we have a source for it.
    I was a dog on a short chain.
    Now there's no chain.
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  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Has Load-X commissioned a run from Starline with a Load-X headstamp?
    Cognitive Dissident

  7. #67
    Boolit Master
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    I got acquainted with the little stinker (25-20 Win) because a neighbor had one in 23B.

    He approached me about loading for it so I bought the dies and a bunch of Remington unaired brass. That and the Speer 75 gr FN were available back then.

    Well as usual, if it goes bang and shoots where you are pointing the thing I get hooked.

    I was loading a moderate dose of 4198 and he did not like it. He wanted more steam. I thought I was doing him a favor at that level because ACCURACY was great but he was not as impressed.

    I offered to buy the Savage bolt gun so he went to a gun shop and got brainwashed into thinking $400 was a fair price. I could not justify that. His wife gave it to a nephew of her’s and that settled that.

    But that little stinker, the 25-20 Win kept talking to me over the years and after acquiring a couple of Contender frames I had finally had enough of waiting. I contacted Ed at EDsTC and bought a rifle barrel for $295. Go figure!

    I have been scrounging some molds in 1/4 bore and one is likely a barn burner, an old Ideal with a HP pin in the 75 gr range as well as some others. I have not done any cast with it but been just messing with j words from Speer (87 gr TNT) because of the single shot status.

    I have a lot of California ground squirrels running around here that deserve a nice 1/4” piercing beings they have illegally immigrated north to me but am too busy farming to attend to them.

    Life!

    Three44s
    Quote Originally Posted by Bret4207

    “There is more to this than dumping lead in a hole.”

  8. #68
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    Gunslinger1911's Avatar
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    Yes, Load X had a custom run of 25-20 by Starline. Even has "LX" on case head.
    Cogno, Ergo, Boom

    If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

  9. #69
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    Chev. William's Avatar
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    RE: Alternative Neck sizing die.
    Lee Precision has in the Past "opened" up .25ACP Carbide Ring Sizing dies to custom diameters for me.
    At the time they charged $28.00 for the Die plus $30.00 to open it to requested size plus shipping costs.
    I have Had them do dies from .278" up to .300" for swaging use.

    Best Regards,
    Chev. William

  10. #70
    Boolit Master
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    I have often thought that those of us living Back East should have given the Ultra-Louden-Boomer gun rag writers a good shot in the nose. 22 hornet and it's derivatives, 25/20, 32/20 and their derivatives, and 38 spl make absolutely perfect Back East Critter Getters in a long barrel break open rifle platform.

    Load them up with a nice flat nose cast bullet and viola - a perfect hunting rifle for back east game on the typical small parcels and 10-acre wood lots we are likely to have access to here.

    The 25/20 would shine in that duty.

  11. #71
    Boolit Master
    Bent Ramrod's Avatar
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    Hopelessly obsolete. I’ve got five of them, 3 SS, two WCF; I should know.


  12. #72
    Boolit Master
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    If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.

  13. #73
    Boolit Man ofreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.
    Not if you want to eat them.

  14. #74
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ofreen View Post
    Not if you want to eat them.
    When the .25-20 Stevens was a blackpowder cartridge with a M.V. around 1000 fps., it was considered the squirrel cartridge par excellence. The WCF is no different, unless you load it like the silly Loudenboomer fraternity would demand you do.
    Cognitive Dissident

  15. #75
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.
    Great Wild Turkey cartridge.

  16. #76
    Boolit Master
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    The 25/20 fits a slot that has few if any modern rounds in it's class. Loaded to 22lr speed with a 75gr boolet it will kill like a 22lr could only wish for at about the same cost per round. Loaded to 2000 fps it makes the 22mag lame in comparison at half or less cost per round. Recoil is very light, noise level is low, range (125/150yds) on up to dog sized critters, and doesn't destroy hides on fur bearers. Other than hard to find brass and ammo, what's not to like?

    I have two, a Win 92 and a Savage 25, and have managed to scrounge several hundred cases here and there. I use one or the other instead of rimfire 22s for hunting. I believe one of the new single shot rifles in 25/20 would sell well if ammo were available.

  17. #77
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    The 25/20 fits a slot that has few if any modern rounds in it's class. Loaded to 22lr speed with a 75gr boolet it will kill like a 22lr could only wish for at about the same cost per round. Loaded to 2000 fps it makes the 22mag lame in comparison at half or less cost per round. Recoil is very light, noise level is low, range (125/150yds) on up to dog sized critters, and doesn't destroy hides on fur bearers. Other than hard to find brass and ammo, what's not to like?

    I have two, a Win 92 and a Savage 25, and have managed to scrounge several hundred cases here and there. I use one or the other instead of rimfire 22s for hunting. I believe one of the new single shot rifles in 25/20 would sell well if ammo were available.
    Yup. I used one on groundhogs for several years when I lived in Michigan. Load to 1000 fps. and it's great for squirrels, and doesn't alert the neighborhood. Load a 60-75 grain gas gas checked bullet to 1800 fps and it's a turkey round par excellence. If your gun is strong enough, load a 60 grain JSP over 12 grains of Lil'Gun and you'll get 2400 fps., which is .22 Hornet territory but with a much heavier bullet. Quite capable of coyotes out to 150 yards or so, and marginally capable of small deer in the right hands.

    Cast bullet reloads are cheap - typical charge of powder for light cast bullet loads is 4 to 6 grains. On paper you typically get around 100 bullets per pound of lead. Can't beat that with a stick.

    Historically, the only thing that put the .25-20 in the shade was the coming of smokeless .22 rimfire ammo, which stole the squirrel-hunting market. .22 rimfire was cheaper, for them as wasn't willing and competent to load their own. You can see this in the sales of the old Stevens 44 rifles, which I've been tracking. Up to WW1, .25-20s were as common as .22s.
    Last edited by uscra112; 06-09-2019 at 01:08 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  18. #78
    Boolit Master
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    Why? It is not a big game round.

    Quote Originally Posted by OverMax View Post
    If it isn't obsolete it should be. Not much wallop does the little 25 cartridge have. ~~ Well maybe for squirrels it's OK.
    EDG

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Why? It is not a big game round.
    It was often used as an everything round in days gone by. The largest typical whitetail was killed with it, and I know it's killed its share of other big game in the past 120+ years. No, don't infer that it is "enough gun" for those applications.
    I'm also certain that one could make a case for obsolescence when its performance has been surpassed by newer cartridges, but I don't see that happening with a number of rounds that "should be obsolete".

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I think one problem the .25-20 WCF faced was that it was so heavily marketed by Winchester for their lever-action rifles, none of which would ever stand a chance in accuracy competitions. Same is true of the .30-30, which can be very, very accurate in single-shot and bolt-action rifles.

    I've read that the Inuit used the .25-20 for seals, and the odd polar bear when circumstances required.
    Last edited by uscra112; 06-09-2019 at 02:58 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check