Buffington sights

[waksupi]

I'd picked up a 1884 Trapdoor at the last gun show. Shot the bejeebers out of it to 500 yards last week, with excellent accuracy.

However, that tiny peep sight was a real challenge for old eyes. I drilled it out to a #41 drill bit size yesterday, and the sight picture is definitely greatly improved. Probably didn't need to go that large, but it worked for me.

[RedlegEd]

Hi. I agree that front sight and little peep hole is definitely made for a younger man's eyes. Do tell, what load were you using? I got Spence Wolf's book and have been using his recommendations for my TDs (I have two '84s,) with some success. Just curious what others are using. A picture of your rifle would be nice too! Thanks. Ed

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Not only younger eyes, but outdoor eyes not ruined by TV, computers, small fenced backyards and all that reading we did in school. I like bigger apertures too, now if I could just see the target and front sight at the same time! ? !

[waksupi]

Edited, I put down a kicker that had been recommended to me. The 4064 does shoot dirty, but groups under 1.5". The other kicker was at 4"+.

46 gr. WC 872, 5.5 gr. 4064. 405 gr. Gov. bullet.

[John Boy]

Buffington sights ... one of the best inventions that Springfield made for the trapdoors

[RedlegEd]

Edited, I put down a kicker that had been recommended to me. The 4064 does shoot dirty, but groups under 1.5". The other kicker was at 4"+.

46 gr. WC 872, 5.5 gr. 4064. 405 gr. Gov. bullet.

Hi. That's really interesting, especially with that slow powder. Have you tried with "traditional" BP loadings to compare? Also, your 405gr Govt bullet, is that the Lee HB, or one of the other PB versions, sized to and lubed with? Sorry for the questions, but I'm getting pretty good results with 2fg Olde Eynsford and 405gr bullets as well (both the Lee that I cast and a Winchester mould version of the bullets I bought from Dan at Bull Shop, cast of 20:1 alloy.) Ed
Attachment 240281

[waksupi]

Hi. That's really interesting, especially with that slow powder. Have you tried with "traditional" BP loadings to compare? Also, your 405gr Govt bullet, is that the Lee HB, or one of the other PB versions, sized to and lubed with? Sorry for the questions, but I'm getting pretty good results with 2fg Olde Eynsford and 405gr bullets as well (both the Lee that I cast and a Winchester mould version of the bullets I bought from Dan at Bull Shop, cast of 20:1 alloy.) Ed
Attachment 240281

I've not used BP in this rifle. I don't compete formally anymore, and all of our shooting is just for fun. Besides, I have LOTS of WC872! The bullet is the Lee hollow base, powder coated, unsized wheel weights.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I agree with you about the Buffington sight. That tiny hole is too small for my old eyes. What I hate just as much is the heavy trigger pull. I have not checked mine for put weight it feels like twenty pounds. I loaded 18 grains of 4759 and it may have shot very well but between the sights and the trigger pull I was lucky to hit the target at all. I first loaded it with a case full of Swiss 1 1/2 and had no trouble hitting the steel plate at two hundred yards off hand. I will admit, it is rather large plate. I will attach pictures of the rifle but only a little of the sight is in the picture.

[Deadeye Bly]

I also drilled out the peep hole in one of mine, I don't remember the size without measuring it. I made a new front sight blade .093" wide so I could see it better and worked the trigger pull down under 5 lbs. It shoots well. I won Woody's trapdoor challenge in GA with it in the fall of 2017 by 29 points. I shot a 90 on the 600 yard target, just one shot under the nat'l record and my last shot was a 7. I shot 60 grains of 1 1/2 Swiss black powder with a 535 grain bullet. Yes, trapdoors can shoot well and be a lot of fun.

[Shawlerbrook]

Have read that hollow base cast are the way to go in TD. They are a ball to shoot.

[waksupi]

The trigger pull on this one is right around 4.5#. My business rifle is closer to 5#.

I kind of wonder if the government intended for the end user to drill the sight to suit them? I know it sounds like too far thinking for a government agency, but who knows?

[25ring]

I've not used BP in this rifle. I don't compete formally anymore, and all of our shooting is just for fun. Besides, I have LOTS of WC872! The bullet is the Lee hollow base, powder coated, unsized wheel weights.

Another good load with WC872 is 4grs RL-7 and 54grs of WC872 with a 466gr mini-groove bullet. This is a mini-groove that has been shortened 1 band.

[John in PA]

I'll second the vote to use the data and procedures in Spence Wolf's book. Loading is a bit fiddly, but the results are worth it. Not match grade accuracy, but as good as the military intended for them to shoot with production ammunition.

[toot]

does any one use the v rear battle sight at the rear of the rear sight?

[Larry Gibson]

I prefer the M1879 rear sight as I use the Lee 405 HB loaded to 45-70 and 45-55 gov't level in my H&R OM and carbine. The load is zeroed 3 - 4" high at 100 yards with the rear set at 100 yards. the load is then regulated to the sight settings on the "R" and "C" M1879 rear sights. With the "R" sight on the OM with it's shorter sight radius than the M1873 rifle I have to use the "point 8 rule" to set the correct range on the sight for the range to target.

I consider the M1879 rear sight much more practical in my forays into "hostile" territory with "hostile" rocks attacking at various ranges......The M1879 sight is much quicker to use than the Buffington and, for my shooting, just as accurate......

Attachment 285802

[Big Mak]

My 1883 cartouche has been fired very little, mostly by me!

[missionary5155]

That is a fine looking Trapdoor !

[Don McDowell]

Buffington sights ... one of the best inventions that Springfield made for the trapdoors

It worked so good it was carried on into the Krag's and first generation 1903's

[Sheridan64]

I prefer the M1879 rear sight as I use the Lee 405 HB loaded to 45-70 and 45-55 gov't level in my H&R OM and carbine. The load is zeroed 3 - 4" high at 100 yards with the rear set at 100 yards. the load is then regulated to the sight settings on the "R" and "C" M1879 rear sights. With the "R" sight on the OM with it's shorter sight radius than the M1873 rifle I have to use the "point 8 rule" to set the correct range on the sight for the range to target.

I consider the M1879 rear sight much more practical in my forays into "hostile" territory with "hostile" rocks attacking at various ranges......The M1879 sight is much quicker to use than the Buffington and, for my shooting, just as accurate......

Attachment 285802

The M79 was most definitely an actual battle sight. I may have read that the sides of the buckhorn were set to calculate lead against a running horse at 100. British Martini sights had a similar thing going on with them. Possibly in Al Fresca's book. But CRS syndrome negates clear memory of that.

You can def tell that the indian wars were largely over (except in the SW with periodic Apache clashes, but nothing of scale) with the introduction of the Buffington. Very much a target sight.

You have to pity those poor NG guys sent to the Philippines with them, but then again it was all pretty much point blank in jungle down on Mindinao.

[missionary5155]

One thing... a 500 grain caliber .45 cast will go through alot of jungle and still put a permanent hurt on a target.