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Thread: Marlin 444 Brass 410

  1. #21
    I wish I had known about the 9.3x74r for 3" shells. I bought magtech. They work very nice for 2.5" shells. But a 3" shell would be better.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    We'll I'm in now, just ordered a 410 o/u. I'll be ordering some 9.3 brass and a bag of #8 shot shortly. Greatly anticipating all the money I'll save loading my own shells.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy Greg's Avatar
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    my 410...well, it was my Grandpa’s first ( marked 12mm ) has a 2" chamber, so I used .444 marlin brass cases. The 303 cases didn’t work so good!

    .410 Brass case Load

    * see Lyman 42nd Handbook and Hodgdon’s 25th pg 442.

    R-P .444 cases

    R-P Large Pistol primer

    14.5 grains H110

    ⅛" card wad; " filler wad

    ⅝ oz shot; and a card over-shot wad glued in with super glue. I couldn’t find any ‘water glass’!!

    Taper crimp with a 45 ACP die.


    I had picked up some Alcan ‘.45 pistol’-‘Special Wads for brass cases’ at a Gun Show. tried the 303 brass, I wasn’t thrilled with the results. I bought .444 Marlin brass, it works even though it’s a 2 + 7/32" length.

    http://www.circlefly.com/ lists wads for brass cases. Hornady brought out their 405 cases ( 2") and then the metric 9.3x74 R if you want a 3" case.

    A Lyman 45 ACP carbide die does the sizing; I took a extra decaping stem adapter and made a wad seating stem using a long pan head machine screw and jam nut. The Lyman die comes bored straight thru then threaded 9/16th’s for the adapter...RCBS is threaded a lot smaller and won’t full length size a 2"case.
    God Bless ya'll
    Greg

    Je suis Charlie

    "You can observe a lot by watching."- Yogi Berra

    Shooters Talk Refugee

  4. #24
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Here's how I load my 444-410 loads (use at your own risk) 444 Marlin brass with any large rifle primer, 12gr. Blue Dot, .070 nitro card, red Claybuster 410 plastic wad trimmed slightly to about 1/8 inch from case mouth, fill to top of wad with shot (slightly less than 7/16 oz.) overshot card and Titebond wood glue. This patterns nicely for my little 410 breakbarrel. Gp

  5. #25
    Boolit Bub
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    Haven't had a chance to ever fire form cases but this post has me interested. If I get the 9.3 cases what would you recommend for fire forming with Bullseye, Unique or Lil-Gun? These are my current powders on hand. Any help would be appreciated as I want to load my own 3" shells for round balls and buckshot. Thanks

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Use what you got on hand and go from there. I had use some old ear plugs over the powder to fire form. Then use the data for what load you will use for the 410 .I use 2400 powder for my 410 2 1/2" I forgot what I use for 3" I need to look at my data cards I made up .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    Sounds good, I also have a Moss 410 pump that I want to use as well. Plus I am planning on picking up a single barrel Hatfield or Yildiz soon for experimenting purposes for .410. I am new to reloading shotgun shells so do not much about them, have been loading rifle and pistol for years but I do have the Lyman shot shell manual to go by so collecting data now. At this time I am not ready to purchase a Mec as I do not how much I will be reloading .410. I have an old original Lee Loader in .410 that I plan to use on 3" shells to do this experimenting.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold Squrl78's Avatar
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    I tried that in my .410 bolt gun. The head space must have been off. The case went all the way in. But the bolt wouldn't close.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Squri78. -- Too thick a rim or too long a cartridge?

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncmn View Post
    Sounds good, I also have a Moss 410 pump that I want to use as well. Plus I am planning on picking up a single barrel Hatfield or Yildiz soon for experimenting purposes for .410. I am new to reloading shotgun shells so do not much about them, have been loading rifle and pistol for years but I do have the Lyman shot shell manual to go by so collecting data now. At this time I am not ready to purchase a Mec as I do not how much I will be reloading .410. I have an old original Lee Loader in .410 that I plan to use on 3" shells to do this experimenting.
    The brass cases I use 9.3x74r will cycle in my Moss 500 . But fireform them in my Savage 24 22/410
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  11. #31
    I posted this on a Taurus Judge site.

    NOTE !!! This post contains loading information that is not found in loading manuals. Just because I was able to fire it in my Judge, with out any appearant damage to either myself or my 2.5" Chambered, 3" barrel, SS Judge, does not mean you will be able to fire it in yours. Exercise due caution with your own loadings.

    Yesterday I finally got back to the range to try the 410 loads I had loaded in 444 Marlin cases. I used 2 powders, Unique and IMR4227. The shot load was 3 ea. 0000 buckshot balls, wt 83g ea. 250g total, a Ballistic Products Stretch-36 410 wad, and a overshot card cut from a cool whip lid.

    I started by firing some Americam Eagle 225g PSP 45 LC loads, box M.V. shows 860 fps. to set up my Chrony Beta. Initially they were reading 250 pfs because of a poor bullet path over the Chrony. When I finally got the Chrony to record them it showed 750 to 795 fps. We then proceeded to the 410 / 444 loads.

    The 4227 loads left unburned powder in the cases and barrel. Tried it because I had found a book loading for 1/2 oz shot (212g) and 15-17g 4227. Adjusting the powder down to 14.0g & 14.5g because the shot load was higher at 250g. So for me the 4227 loadings are unacceptable and will not be loaded again.

    Next came the Unique loads: 6.5g, 7.0g, 7.5g, 8.0g. The 8.0g seemed to work best. Produced a recoil simular to the factory 45 LC loads I earlier fired. No matter where I tried to place the shot over the Chrony Beta it gave numbers in the 250 to 325 fps range. I did not believe them to be accurate readings. Was it reading the balls or the wad or a mix of both. Chrony was 5' in front of the muzzle. Before I gave up on the Chrony I managed to hit it with one of the shot balls or a wad. Even damaged it still displayed all but the first digit. Must be a Chrony Timex model. So the Chrony is taking a trip home to Chrony. But I digress. At a target range of 7 paces, aprox 21 ft, the loads of 3, 0.357" 83g mini bullets produced a shot pattern of 4" to 6". I had hoped to achieve a smaller pattern than the factory 000 buckshot loads (4"), but so far I have not. BUT I WILL KEEP TRYING !!!

    The 444 Marlin cases all swelled out to mirror the chamber dimensions but could be pushed out with the ejector. I read the 444 cases do not need resized when fired in a 410 single or double barrel but they will need resized after being fired in a Judge. I have pics I can up load when I figure out how to do that.

    I also loaded 3 with 8.5 g Unique. That is a max cowboy action load for 255g cast lead bullets. I will shoot them next time.

  12. #32

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Old Salt View Post
    I posted this on a Taurus Judge site.

    NOTE !!! This post contains loading information that is not found in loading manuals. Just because I was able to fire it in my Judge, with out any appearant damage to either myself or my 2.5" Chambered, 3" barrel, SS Judge, does not mean you will be able to fire it in yours. Exercise due caution with your own loadings.

    Yesterday I finally got back to the range to try the 410 loads I had loaded in 444 Marlin cases. I used 2 powders, Unique and IMR4227. The shot load was 3 ea. 0000 buckshot balls, wt 83g ea. 250g total, a Ballistic Products Stretch-36 410 wad, and a overshot card cut from a cool whip lid.

    I started by firing some Americam Eagle 225g PSP 45 LC loads, box M.V. shows 860 fps. to set up my Chrony Beta. Initially they were reading 250 pfs because of a poor bullet path over the Chrony. When I finally got the Chrony to record them it showed 750 to 795 fps. We then proceeded to the 410 / 444 loads.

    The 4227 loads left unburned powder in the cases and barrel. Tried it because I had found a book loading for 1/2 oz shot (212g) and 15-17g 4227. Adjusting the powder down to 14.0g & 14.5g because the shot load was higher at 250g. So for me the 4227 loadings are unacceptable and will not be loaded again.

    Next came the Unique loads: 6.5g, 7.0g, 7.5g, 8.0g. The 8.0g seemed to work best. Produced a recoil simular to the factory 45 LC loads I earlier fired. No matter where I tried to place the shot over the Chrony Beta it gave numbers in the 250 to 325 fps range. I did not believe them to be accurate readings. Was it reading the balls or the wad or a mix of both. Chrony was 5' in front of the muzzle. Before I gave up on the Chrony I managed to hit it with one of the shot balls or a wad. Even damaged it still displayed all but the first digit. Must be a Chrony Timex model. So the Chrony is taking a trip home to Chrony. But I digress. At a target range of 7 paces, aprox 21 ft, the loads of 3, 0.357" 83g mini bullets produced a shot pattern of 4" to 6". I had hoped to achieve a smaller pattern than the factory 000 buckshot loads (4"), but so far I have not. BUT I WILL KEEP TRYING !!!

    The 444 Marlin cases all swelled out to mirror the chamber dimensions but could be pushed out with the ejector. I read the 444 cases do not need resized when fired in a 410 single or double barrel but they will need resized after being fired in a Judge. I have pics I can up load when I figure out how to do that.

    I also loaded 3 with 8.5 g Unique. That is a max cowboy action load for 255g cast lead bullets. I will shoot them next time.
    I was given some 410 hulls that was shot in a Judge you are right on that for them to swell up. You need to resize them for shoot in a 410.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    I found 20 or so empty 444 Marlin brass cases at the range and took them home, not knowing what they'd be good for. Then I read about using them in a .410. Sure enough, they work perfectly in my old Mossberg bolt action .410, but I'll have to resize them for use in my newly acquired Legacy Pointer .410.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I did some slug loading in 410 with 444 cases a few years back. The only trouble we had with some Single shot NEFs and another, I think a Spanish make was that the rims were to thick. We had to turn a bit from backside of rims. I saw a article where they were making 44mg shot loads in them and had to swage them and turn rim diameter down to fit 44mg revolver. My kids were little at the time and loading up a box of 410s in 444 cases was cheap fun loads for them.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy Greg's Avatar
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    I recently bought a RIA .410 single shot from Rural King.

    finally got out to shoot it yesterday.

    using my brass (444) case loads, I had misfires. when I tried the rounds in my Grandpa's .410 each one fired no problem.

    So, either the large pistol primers weren't seated to the bottom of the primer pocket, OR the RIA has a little less firing pin protrusion.
    God Bless ya'll
    Greg

    Je suis Charlie

    "You can observe a lot by watching."- Yogi Berra

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  17. #37
    Boolit Master



    cwlongshot's Avatar
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    That was my first thought greg. Firing pin protrusion is short.

    Let us know what ya find!

    Cw
    NRA Life member REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy Greg's Avatar
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    I finally had time to investigate the failure to fire further..

    I seated a LP primer flush with the rim in 444 brass.. failure to fire
    I seated a LP primer to the bottom of the pocket in 444 brass.. failure to fire

    I seated a LR primer to the bottom of the pocket in 444 brass.. failure to fire

    RIA Traditions .410 - firing pin protrusion is .070"
    Bridge Gun Co. .410 - firing pin protrusion is .080"

    I measured case head thickness as best I could.
    R-P 444 brass case head thickness is @ .068
    Magtech 410 brass case head thickness is @ .063


    the RIA Traditions .410 fires factory and reloaded .410 hulls just fine. it fires Magtech .410 brass cases just fine.

    I'll save my 444 brass cases for my Grandpa's Bridge Gun Company .410, untill I can get the rims thinned on the R-P 444 brass
    God Bless ya'll
    Greg

    Je suis Charlie

    "You can observe a lot by watching."- Yogi Berra

    Shooters Talk Refugee

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    I made some .44 mag shot shells out of .303 Brit brass and had to thin a couple rims. Easy / minor job on a lathe. Sounds similar.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    I had one of those 45/410 Brazilian single shot pistols . I used 303 Britt cases and a couple of 30-40 Krag cases for 25 cases . I ruined several in the effort and gave up just blowing them out in favor of gently necking up with stepped sizers . For size and decapping I used a 303 shell holder and a 45 Colts carbide sizer but switched to an FCD for 45 ACP with it's guts removed . The ACP die just scuffed the high places and straightened the base up , not needed after 3-4 shots . Then just a universal decapper .

    Being a numbers mechanical kind of guy I found first off that the 303 @2.1" is about .7" short in a 2 1/2" chamber . Remember you get to use all that space usually reserved for the crimp of the plastic cases so even the 444 cases are a little short . In any case with a case full chamber length case in a 2 1/2" chamber you can get a light 3" load in the case due to the thinner case and reduced base volume of brass over at least the plastic cases I had on hand .

    The loads I made up with paper wadding were somewhat inconsistent and plastic wads were better but probably a little bit hot . I needed heavier wad cards I think .

    Should I revisit this some day I will look for some 9.3-74 cases and "mag" loads I think .
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check