When you find one at a reasonable price, see if they have 2 of them and call me! I've been looking for one that I wouldn't have to trade my first born for!Now if I could just fine a nice, reasonably priced 6" S&W Mod.25 in .45 Colt......
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When you find one at a reasonable price, see if they have 2 of them and call me! I've been looking for one that I wouldn't have to trade my first born for!Now if I could just fine a nice, reasonably priced 6" S&W Mod.25 in .45 Colt......
IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!
Never been in a bear attack and pray it stays that way!
Seems to me that a bear charging at somebody means that the only "stopping" shot is a cranium shot. Seems to me any 9mm-on-up with proper bullet will do the job. Bullet design and shot placement, along with the ability for accurate follow-up shots seems most important to me.
Again, it appears to me that the idea of having some large powerful caliber/cartridge that will smash bones and get to the vitals is something one would do in a hunting situation.
Last edited by outdoorfan; 04-22-2019 at 01:14 PM.
O.K., murph205, it's a deal -- but if you see one snatch it up!
Bear attacks -- I've never experienced one either. Matter of fact, I've only seen two of them in the wild, brown/black bears, and they were eager to go the other way. Over a lifetime, though, one reads about a lot of them. Seems like three observations run common in all the accounts: 1. The bear runs awfully fast. 2. Often shots of any caliber seem to skid off their skulls, so the best shot(s) might be at the chest if it's coming head-on, which they usually seem to do. 3. Once it gets to you, you're unlikely to survive, or at the best be terribly mauled.
I'm kind of thinking you'll most likely only get off one shot, but with a double action perhaps two.
Originally Posted by murf205
Curious what they are going for?
"Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"
Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...
LOL at folks who think anything less than a wide meplat large bore caliber or a very fast moving spire point is going to penetrate a Grizzly bear skull...Bear attacks -- I've never experienced one either. Matter of fact, I've only seen two of them in the wild, brown/black bears, and they were eager to go the other way. Over a lifetime, though, one reads about a lot of them. Seems like three observations run common in all the accounts: 1. The bear runs awfully fast. 2. Often shots of any caliber seem to skid off their skulls, so the best shot(s) might be at the chest if it's coming head-on, which they usually seem to do. 3. Once it gets to you, you're unlikely to survive, or at the best be terribly mauled.
I'm kind of thinking you'll most likely only get off one shot, but with a double action perhaps two.
The front of a Grizzly skull is very sloped and is famous for deflecting bullets...
Attachment 240282
Attachment 240283
And I see bears every year in the woods. They are always headed the opposite direction post haste as soon as they detect me. Out of dozens of encounters, only one bear followed me while I was out berry picking. A bucket full of huckleberries was too much for him/her to resist until I yelled at him/her.
"Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River
Current suggested retail price for a new 6 1/2" barrel Mod. 25 .45 L. Colt is $1,009.00. A used one is about $800.00 +/-. The used ones come and go on the internet auctions. A new one might be a little harder to find as even stocking dealers might not have one in the case as I suspect sales
are slow in this particular firearms niche.
Interesting, Idaho45Guy.......so, since this is your thread, and you stated in your first post that you currently carry a Ruger Bisley .45 Colt, but are inclined toward a .454 Casull, have you reached any new conclusions? Looking for a double action now? After reading through all of it I'm still liking the .45 Colt. It has that wide meplat at the front end of 255 gr. and to my way of thinking is about the limit for double action controllability, although a .44 Magnum with a 6 inch barrel might also work with some practice. Nice bear skull -- have a story to go with it?
I so rarely go into Griz country that I have no need to upgrade. I load my own 300gr cast boolits with Lil' Gun to around 1200 fps in the .45 Colt. Hot enough if I feel the need to wander that far East. I rarely ever carry the Ruger anymore. The Glock 10mm is so much more comfortable and adaptable and is ideal for likely encounters with wolves and drunk rednecks.
Oh, and the skulls aren't mine; just photos taken off the internet.
"Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River
Pretty close to $1000 here.
You can look at the angle of that skull and bet that the odds of a boolit glancing over the top are very good. I would think that a swc design might get a little more "bite" than a round or even a round/flat profile.
IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!
When a bear charges, isn't it's head down a bit? That should make for less angle of deflection, I would think. And the shot sould be probably not towards the top of the skull, but towards where the eyes are.
“I so rarely go into Griz country that I have no need to upgrade. I load my own 300gr cast boolits with Lil' Gun to around 1200 fps in the .45 Colt. “
I’m not sure I would put such a load in my M25. I don’t know if I’d even shoot it from a Blackhawk. Pretty warm, IMO.
"Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"
Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...
The S&W M25 in 45 Colt has relatively thin cylinders walls. 25K seems to be commonly agreed max for them. Blackhawks will handle more. 1200 fps with cast and Lil' Gun is a Hodgdon recommend safe load for Blackhawks.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Lived, hunted, camped for years in grizzly country, carried either a 44 Magnum Super Blackhawk with 300gr Speers, or a 45 Colt Ruger Biskey with 300gr Speer Unicore bullets. I was carrying the Bisley when I killed my Toklat grizzly in the Alaska Range. I think the myth of bullets glancing off of a grizzly bear's head are more likely a bullet that passes through the enormous amount of muscle found on a bear's skull, and not a bullet striking the skull. Charging bear, you want to aim for the nose/mouth area, a miss high still hits skull, low is a neck/center chest, left or right will hit shoulders slowing locomotion.
It's not a myth I've known it happen to a black bear with a 338 mag. It was walking up a hill had its nose to the dirt didn't even know James was there the resulting shot blew the hair skin and muscle off little larger than the size of my hand. knocked it over it rolled down the hill in a ball hit the bottom and took off running. he still has the hide from what I know he started using his 460 wby which i think is way over kill seeing as he decapitated one with a neck shot
I've seen black bear killed with a 22lr to the head. Having seen what my 300 Win Mag does to a bear's skull, I still feel it is a myth, skull isn't as thick as a moose, but it sure has a lot more meat on top of it. Buddy center punched a decent grizzly in the head with a 44 Mag and 240gr JSP, DRT.
I made my mind up 35 years ago. When I horse pack into the Bob Marshall, fish the North Fork or chase cows on the Teton, it's with me. 285 grain 44 mag @ 1250 fps. VERY controllable. I use a strong side holster and a very stiff nylon belt.
I guess a ruger Alaskan 454 or 44 would be hard to beat. Easy to carry and draw (which means as much as how powerful it is). For the most part though your going to get one chance. We shot a charging bear target at a Linebaugh seminar one year and the target started at 20 yards and came at you at a pace similar to a bear charging. I don't think more then 5 percent of those SEASONED SHOOTERS got more then one hit on the target. 9 times out of 10 it was the first shot and the follow ups went wild. That is a piece of paper. Traded that for claws and teeth and id bet the number of NO hits (which by the way was about 50 percent) would double.
Would I feel undergunned using a 10 loaded with heavy cast or a 44 loaded the same. Yup. if I knew that I was going out that day and a bear was going to charge me from 20 yard give me my 4 inch 500 Linebaugh loaded to the teeth. Ive shot enough game the size of deer and blackbear and pigs to have seen over and over the little effect being shot anywhere other then the central nervous system with any gun, even a 500 will do. I shot a 1000 lb buffalo behind the should once and watched it hardly even flinch and keep eating till it fell over dead. Gun was a 500 with a 480lfn at 1200fps. It had all the time in the world if it would have been a bear to get to me and eat a good bit of me before it died.
Id say to choose a minium gun for the job id ask myself what I would take if I was going to actually go hunt that same animal alone with that gun. If you feel fine going on a grizzly hunt with a 10mm or a 357 then its your but not mine. I love my 29. Its a great gun for protecting me from 2 legged creatures and even hunting medium game and I know guns like that and 41 and 357 mags are used by guys with more griz and brown bear experience in one year then I will see in my life but that 29 would feel about as small as my puckered but with a 800lb mad bear coming at me. Like you said black bear is a different thing all together. those I do have experience with and any gun you would feel comfortable shooting a deer with will kill a black bear just as well. I know a lot of dog bear hunters up here and most of them I know carry a 357 or 44 mag revolver or a 44 mag or 3030 rifle. Ive shot black bear with 41s 44s 45colts 475s and 500s. Never shot one with a 454 but it could sure be added to that list and to be honest never saw any of them stand apart from the rest with proper shot placement. Cool thing about black bears is they run the other way
As Phil Shoemaker proved, a 9mm you have is better than a .44 you don't.
The 10 days I spent in the Bob Marshall Wilderness had me wearing a S&W 629 loaded with 310 grain wide flat nosed bullets at true magnum velocities. If I left the sleeping bag it was on me, if I was in the sleeping bag it was in reach. I figured the best way to not see a bear was to be prepared at all times.
So you feel comfortable placing a bullet in the eye socket of a bear as it is bounding over blowdowns and around bushes on a deliberate charge? You are a better man than I
I would prefer a little more margin for error in shot placement and opt for a large bore heavy hard slug in front of a fairly stiff charge of slow burning powder and hope I can at least change his attitude if I don't kill him.
Although I agree with that sentiment, that man was extremely lucky. If that bear had been charging with purpose I fear the outcome would have been much different.As Phil Shoemaker proved, a 9mm you have is better than a .44 you don't.
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