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Thread: 1941 Johnson....ruined

  1. #41
    Boolit Buddy T_McD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnoahhh View Post
    B) We reach a point in history where we have an obligation to maintain icons for future generations, especially those that are relatively rare. Analogy: would kids in the year 2119 have a better sense of automotive/corporate history by viewing an original immaculate 1932 Ford V-8 roadster or a crummy '32 Ford hotrod? Beautiful original '32's are far more valuable than the rod Uncle Jimmy built in his garage in 1973, even if Uncle Jimmy did a bang-up job. To sacrifice such icons as early V-8's and rare rifles on the altar of personal whims denotes a degree of aesthetic bankruptcy and disregard for future generations.
    I think this is where a lot of folks disagree (at least I do). Cars and guns are tools not art. I would rather see tools used, abused, and restored to functionality than transformed into an art exhibit. I know I appreciate seeing old cars out on the road even if they aren’t faithful recreations of the original

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Ya but look what happened to that jerk at red jacket. Had the ATF been paying attention they would have nailed him by episode three.

  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I once pulled the shell of a rusty smle magazine form a junk bucket cut it down to a 1/2 mag put in new spring and follower and refinished it and was chided here for ruining a piece of history. If it was good in the first place I wouldn't have messed with it. On the other hand I have turned down numerous jobs of sporterizing??? a gun because it was in too good a shape to mess up.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master
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    I have a brand new Lee Enfield #4 Fazarkerly that is still unfired in .303
    A friend offered me $1000.00 for it 5 years ago.
    But then I found out that he intended to pull the barrel, and install a Parker Hale .308 barrel and glue wood to the stock to make the grip more of a Palm Swell for long range shooting.
    I told him I would not sell him the rifle , if he intended on butchering it up.
    I suggested he go find some Already Bubba'ed piece of junk that had a bad barrel and rebuild that.
    But he said, no, He wanted a brand new Original Receiver and bolt so it was more accurate and New wood to start his modifications.
    Some people just have more money than Skill.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    IIRC many Johnsons were rebarrled to 7 mm and sold in central America. Maybe there are some original barrels out here and it could be put back.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
    JSnover's Avatar
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    Geeez. Johnsons aren't exactly lying all over the place but there's no point in carrying on as if the was the last known example, especially since no one knows what condition it was in before. If the previous owner turned a pile of scrap into a functional (if ugly) rifle, more power to him.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Is it not much ado about nothing? Butchering guns, tools, and equipment is an art. I don't think I have ever owned a gun that I haven't ruined. That used to be painful to me especially enduring the shaming that I would get from peers and family about how I was a bad person for destroying things. The fun is cutting and prying bending and filing trying to improve on something that needs no improving. When I am done what do I have? ...education.

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Yes they are tools but what a person does with there stuff is there business wether it is there family or tools noone has a right to say otherwise that's what real freedom is
    Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood gun nut


    Show your support for the rocky mtn elk and smoke a pack a day

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    that Johnson is ugly but then it started life ugly, one of the worst looking rifles ever they look like a soup can.

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    I have a brand new Lee Enfield #4 Fazarkerly that is still unfired in .303 .....
    Butchering such a gun would a crime punishable by death. Thank goodness it is in safe hands.

    Brand new unfired Fazarkerly? It must be worth a fortune!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you .303 guy
    I have that rifle and a long branch in excellent condition and do not intend on Bubba'ing either of them.
    But I do have a plastic stock and a no drill scope mount for my long branch left over from other Enfields that I owned previously, that I will use if I decide to take the long branch out Hunting.
    That way the original stock doesn't get messed up, and I might be able to hit a deer with my eyes as poor as they are now.

  12. #52
    Boolit Buddy JoeJames's Avatar
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    I have seen many examples of what started out as near mint military, but someone obviously spent a lot of money with a gunsmith converting them. Just shake my head thinking first of all how much did the feller spend to ruin the rifle or pistol, and then how much of the value was stripped away. Worst I have seen was what appeared to have started out as an M1 Garand, but was converted with a Mannlicher stock, the rear sight was ground off, and a buckhorn sight replaced it forward of the receiver, and the upper front sight ears were also ground off and replaced with a standard front sight. One had to look closely to determine it was once an M1. The job was well done as far as craftsmanship, I must say, and the owner had spent a fair amount of money on it, but the actual value was not just nill, but well nigh negative.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    We are still free to do with what we wish. My money,my toys, my sandbox. Some have more money then sense.
    "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees" Looking for an RCBS Ammomaster and H&R shotgun barrels regardless of condition

  14. #54
    Boolit Master
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    If you just baby sit a rifle for 20 to 40 years you have wasted your time and life. You would get a lot more enjoyment by wearing it out.
    Last edited by EDG; 05-15-2019 at 05:59 PM.
    EDG

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    +1 EDG, a like-new rifle is a rifle that had no purpose and was not used and enjoyed. Firearms 'finds' in pawn shops and gun shops are firearms that were not very important to the previous owner or families that inherited them. If not important to the original owner I will use as I see fit. Recoil pads, different sights, trigger and stock modifications are my choice. The firearms history has been LOST.
    I knew WW II vets that brought home Mausers and Arisaka's, they cut 'em up and went hunting with them. History was not their concern, nor who would cry 30-40 years later. Without condition or provenance a firearm only has value to its owner or what he can get when sold. The guy with the worn toys out on the range/in the woods beats the guy with a pile of expensive toys sitting at work.

  16. #56
    I came across a sporterized Johnson many years ago, in fact saw it at numerous Raleigh shows. At least it was still wood and blued steel but not as issued.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master roverboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corbinace View Post
    While not my "cup o' tea", I cannot help but wonder if the original condition of the arm were such that this may have been an improvement. Maybe it was completely trash to start????
    Yeah, that might be the case. At least I hope it was.....
    Mrs. Hogwallop up and R-U-N-N-O-F-T.

  18. #58
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunGuy2756 View Post
    I don't understand why some people get so nasty when it comes to these things. His gun, he can do what he wants. Why he would modify a rare and valuable 41 Johnson is anybody's guess. I don't like it either but I certainly wouldn't send the guy death threats. Some people are wound way too tight.
    I've seen people freak over a modified Mosin even though there were like 20,000,000 made.
    People that usually "freak" know what they are looking at.....they may have made 20mil Mosin's but when some idiot cuts up a french made rifle people get a little upset. Most people that give items like this a pass are people that have no clue as to what they are looking at.

    Unless this was done in 1950, and by the looks of it I doubt it, there is no reason on the planet to screw up an old military rifle....just walk down to your wallmart buy the most inexpensive Savage or Mossberg and that will out shoot 99.9% of the bubba rifles you see out there.

    The only way this would get a pass if it had been sportered back in the day.....and even with that items that fall into this class should be put back to original.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master and Dean of Balls




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    Last time I checked, this is still America and a man can dispose of his property in any lawful manner he chooses.
    Last edited by fatnhappy; 06-27-2019 at 09:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodore Roosevelt
    No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    To me, it's kind of like a Picasso painting. They are are worth a bunch of money to some, but to me the canvas should be reused to paint some thing worth looking at. The Johnson was ugly to start with but it's now worse. Oh well, there's still originals in museums that I can look at if I want so no big loss. Not being my gun, what business is it of mine if the owner chooses to do what he did.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
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GC Gas Check