Does anyone have, or have a URL to, pressure data for .44-40 BPCR loads fired from a 24" barrel in CUP's? I would like to compare the smokeless data I have to the actual pressures developed with both 3F and 2F powders.
Thanks!
Does anyone have, or have a URL to, pressure data for .44-40 BPCR loads fired from a 24" barrel in CUP's? I would like to compare the smokeless data I have to the actual pressures developed with both 3F and 2F powders.
Thanks!
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
If any one dose it’s probably savvy jack he posted pressure data on several threads from his test barrel there is a wide difference between brands and such
Here is the link
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...p?6684-44-40-p
Last edited by Cast_outlaw; 04-19-2019 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Add link
Kirk ... your on your own. Hope you own a chronograph for starters ...
http://closefocusresearch.com/calcul...ty-gun-systems
Output will be in psi - so you will have to re-calculate to CUP
And candidly, I believe your doing a needless exercise ... 44-40, 200gr bullet, 39gr FFFg = 820 fps
Last edited by John Boy; 04-19-2019 at 11:36 AM.
Regards
John
Well, you could be right, so I'll explain my reasoning:
I intend to load .44-40 using smokeless for my (Navy Arms) Winchester '66 (brass Henry-style receiver). There is plenty of load data out there for smokeless Cowboy rounds shooting a 200gr boolit complete with all the MV and CUP levels. What I want to do is to make sure I don't exceed the design data for this receiver. Since this rifle was born in 1978 my guess is it was designed to shoot smokeless...but at what pressures, I have no idea. And I don't want to exceed them. The CUP readings vary greatly depending on which smokeless powder you are using (it's my intent to use Unique). I figure if I stay within original .44-40 specs I'll be good to go.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
The SAMMI specifications are industry agreed to standards.
Rifles manufactured or sold in this country are intended to use SAMMI standard ammo unless marked otherwise such as "For Black Powder Only".
In 1978 I do not remember that there was much in the way of loaded 44-40 BP ammo around so your rifle is intended for the SAAMI smokeless. Any black powder cartridges sold in this country would also be required to meet the SAAMI limits.
44-40 CUP is listed on page 21 of this document
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf
.44-40 piezo is listed on page 33.
Last edited by EDG; 04-20-2019 at 03:36 PM.
EDG
Capt*Kirk:
The older Lyman reloading books separated .44 WCF (.44-40) into 2 classes, "weak" actions like the Win. 66 and '73 models along with Colt Lightning, etc. and "strong" actions such as the Win '92. Loads for the "weak" actions had pressures less than or equal to black powder loads. Unique is a good powder for black powder equivalent loads with the 200 or 215 grain cast bullet. I usually load 7.5 grains of Unique with the Lee .430-210 RNFP boolit cast from AC 50/50 COWW and pure lead. This is relatively low pressure and accurate.
Lyman cast handbook says 13700 cup
Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both
There Is a lot of information here I recommend picking up this book. It lists all the different guns to what pressures they can withstand but only lists 2 bullets
Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both
There are plenty of load recipes out there for Unique, why not just use one? Like you said, Cowboy loads are out there, so I don't see the problem. I think you are over-thinking this. I have 2 1866's and a Henry, and have had no problems at all.
Do a search for W30WCF's several threads on loading smokeless powders in the 44/40 WCF for 1873 Winchester actions. I believe has has (or had) a website dedicated to the subject as well. True name was John Kort, and he passed away in the recent past.
I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
I knew several shooters bought the brass frame replicas in the 70s..............they were all dismayed at the rate the actions became loose ........around 1000 rounds ............and with light loads..........the looseness seemed to be more due to mechanical wear that action strength.
Data from John Kort - Historian of 44WCF Data:
These are all safe in the ’73 Win 200-217 gr cast bullets
6.2/Titegroup – favorite plinking, target load – 1,150 f.p.s.
6.5/Trailboss – will bump up soft undersized bullets – 1,000 f.p.s.
12/Blue Dot / 16 /4227* / 16/4759* – replicates original smokeless loading – 1,300 f.p.s.
26/RL7* – replicates the original semi smokeless loading – 1,450 f.p.s.
*magnum pistol primer
Kirk - you will not find any better information for modern smokeless reloads compared original loading data
Last edited by John Boy; 04-22-2019 at 09:14 AM.
Regards
John
Thanks, John Boy! I have considered using Trail Boss as it is readily available, but is not cheap in comparison to other smokeless powders. I do quite a bit of .44 magnum and .380 ACP loading with Unique and have a pretty good supply of it which is why I was making it my first choice.
Can you explain the "bump up" of soft undersize bullets part in more detail, and why would Trail Boss do that when others wouldn't? Or is that something only John Kort would have known?
Last edited by Captain*Kirk; 04-22-2019 at 01:55 PM.
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
"Are you gonna pull those pistols, or whistle Dixie?"
Exerpt from The Fouling Shot on loading .44-40:
"... Trail Boss appears to have a quicker pressure rise, (according to a chart made by someone in SASS testing it in a .45-70) than even black powder. [John] Kort found when testing different brands of Cowboy ammunition, that Hornady Cowboy ammo assembled with a swaged 200 gr RNFP bullet produced throat leading in his Marlin ’94 Cowboy rifle. Pulled bullets measured .424” on the body and as small as .421” at the base, apparently being reduced from their original .427” diameter during the factory loading process. No wonder they leaded in his .4285” groove! Kort reloaded the Hornady bullets over 6.5/Trail Boss, and got no more throat leading, with much better groups..."
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |