.45-70 long range hunting boolit

[Fisher]

I am wondering if there are members that have field experience in long range hunting with classic Rifles like Sharps, Rolling blocks and such rifles, that can make some recommendations on what mold to get?

The dream I have is hunting a small number of game in excess of 500 yards, I know some people can get very negative About how technical and impossible it is to compare hunt to target shooting, Im fine with that, and I get that and understand the complications very well. I have taken a springbuck at 804 yards with a modern varminter in .300 WSM which would have been tought of as impossible in the past. I just returned from a hunt with a .308 Encore Pistol , took a springbuck at 406yds and a Blesbuck at 417yds. I once shot a blesbuck on 164yds with a 44 magnum revolver, So I am a bit of an envelope pusher by nature...

I have a Layman Postell mold on its way, and thought about drilling acentre hole in the nose on the lathe ? I have done that on hardcast .44 boolits, and accuracy was still good, but I never hunted with them, because it was an unnecessary spur of the moment kind of thing.... maybe I am just silly...
Drilling into the softer lead one would tipicaly use in the mentioned rifles, may or may not be a problem?

The RCBS 500gr FP is a boolit that another member mentioned in an earlier post, that did draw my attention, but I would like to add some more weight to increase the SD that I wish will kind of make up for the less than spectacular ballistic coefficient of a FP ...

[Fisher]

I have 2 NOE molds, a SWC .44 which I am more than happy with, and their version of the .357 layman 168gr that cast with COWW, .364 and weighs 180gr that is not acceptable for me.

I have noticed this mold, but what will the boolit weigh, and what size will it be cast?
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...oducts_id=919I
I guess what I need would be something in the line of a +\_550gr LONG FLAT NOSE, to get some more weight outside the case with a acceptable BC.
Something like that I have not seen yet.

[NSB]

Apparently ethics isn't part of your hunting considerations. Bragging seems to be the end goal. In good conscience I couldn't add anything to this post, and I've been shooting several 45-70s for a long time. Ever think of just shooting at paper or steel at those distances? FWIW, I've been a very successful long range shooter with both rifles and handguns for many, many years. I just draw the line on using animals to boost my ego.

[Edward]

Apparently ethics isn't part of your hunting considerations. Bragging seems to be the end goal. In good conscience I couldn't add anything to this post, and I've been shooting several 45-70s for a long time. Ever think of just shooting at paper or steel at those distances? FWIW, I've been a very successful long range shooter with both rifles and handguns for many, many years. I just draw the line on using animals to boost my ego.

I second that/Ed

[rfd]

Apparently ethics isn't part of your hunting considerations. Bragging seems to be the end goal. In good conscience I couldn't add anything to this post, and I've been shooting several 45-70s for a long time. Ever think of just shooting at paper or steel at those distances? FWIW, I've been a very successful long range shooter with both rifles and handguns for many, many years. I just draw the line on using animals to boost my ego.

i third that.

[EDG]

The op did not volunteer how many animals he has wounded and how many rounds it took to walk his barrage of bullets onto an animal. No matter how well he studies ballistics he will not have a good way to deal with erratic winds blowing his slow moving bullets off target. I ran a little test at the rifle range with a very accurate 45-70. I shot a small group of just over 1" at 100 yards by shooting only when there was a lull in the breeze. Then I shot several rounds when the breeze was steady at about 4 mph which is about walking speed. The 500 grn bullets at about 1200 fps drifted about 1" at 100 yards.
At 500 yards your chances of getting your first shot on a target in a hunting situation is about zero.

[NSB]

If someone is an "expert" with long range shooting, and has a minimum of intelligence, they'll soon realize how far an animal can move at even two hundred yards when being shot at with something like a 45-70. Even just taking a step can move bullet impact (if you even hit where you're aiming) by FEET, not inches. This post is actually disturbing.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

+1 for NSB

[oldred]

I am in agreement also, taking shots like that is bound to often result in wounded and lost animals! If the OP has not experienced failed shots then he is very likely more lucky than skillful, in either case taking shots such as those are nothing to be bragging about.

[country gent]

I would recommend first finding a load that's up to the task and learning its abilities. DO some shooting on steel gongs at the actual distances. This shows you How LONG time of flight is how wind pushes the bullets and last what shooter errors have effect wise.
I do shoot 45-70 out to 500 yds from several rifles. I use true BP loads and heavy long bullets (550 grn at 1200 fps). Time of flight is a little over 1 1/2 seconds in a lot of areas speed of sound is faster ( depending on sea level in the area) than the bullet meaning the sound gets there first ( unlike modern rounds) With out flags wind become an issue also. The long barrels and lower velocities mean any bobble is magnified.
You really need to do a lot of testing and practice at the actual ranges to determine what is actually the capable use
Taking this type of shot on a already wounded animal is one thing. Taking it as the first shot just isn't right. There is just to much to go sour.

[Ozark mike]

The gun will be pointed up and bullet will have to fall out of the sky well that's a little exaggeration but you'll get the point still not recommended

[Fisher]

I definitely get what you guys are saying, quite the very same way I respond on rookie lonhrange shooters saying they want to shoot game at a thousand yards. And yes fools do rush in where angels fear to thread.

There is just no point for me in doing easy stuff, then I might just as well then buy me a television and a nice couch.... but yes you are right we must remain responsible and have respect for the game we hunt.

I just thought it a bit more doable than it sounds from you guys, and I truly respect your views on it. I am 100%. New to BPCR shootind, But for interest sake what do you guys regard as a “proper “ long range shot” with a tippical 19th century long range rifle? And what was the average long shot in the old days by buffalo hunters? I just would like to experience what they did.

[NSB]

Many years ago I had an intense desire to be an expert at long range shooting. I had Bill Davis build me two revolvers, both in .357mag. I sent him a model 27 SW and a Ruger Security Six. He worked his magic on them and they were returned with 10" barrels on them and they'd shoot ten shots into an inch at 50 yards out of a machine rest. They'd actually do it, and do it with full power mag loads. I spent a couple of years shooting woodchucks with them at distances over a hundred yards. That was either a hit or miss proposition, not much like crippling a deer. After a while I got tired of that and got into silhouette and started competing against other shooters to see who the best long range shooter was. Doing that, you could get all the bragging rights you wanted and nothing suffered but your ego. It was a lot of fun going to the matches and meeting other shooters and doing your best to beat your new found friends. I never got into rifle silhouette, but it's a pretty good game still going today. Take your single shot rifle to a match and shoot with some guys who shoot out to six hundred yards with their single shots....and do pretty good at it. Shooting steel buffalo it doesn't matter if you hit them in the butt or the horn, it all counts and there's no cripples to contend with. You'll learn a lot, get to have some bragging rights of your own, and probably make friends that you'll have for a lifetime. Those guys just love to share what they know and they love to win also. Save the ego shots for steel and use your new found abilities making ethical shots on game animals that deserve more than just being a target. I get where you're coming from, I probably suffered from some of it myself way back in my younger days. Somewhere along the line I found out I could satisfy my shooting ego at the range and go out hunting and just have a good time making a good shot once in a while. Just give it some thought about what you're trying to accomplish shooting. Good luck.

[Fisher]

I just red through all the posts again, I would like to apologize to each and everyone one that I offended and desturbed. It is clear that I definitely did not know what I was talking about.
Thank you to everyone that took the time to explain the scenario that I wished to get my self into.

Taking into account what were said, I recon a realistic approach would be that with a BPCR rifle could be applied to half of what one would expect of a modern well setup scoped hunting rifle. A 250 yard shot with a BPCR wil be as demanding as a 500 yard shot with a modern rifle, which is easy in a target range but quite a mean feat when hunting.

Although I live in a very active shooting sosiety, most of the men I know, hunt, shoots, or at least own a gun, BUT to this day, I have never met a handgun hunter that I did not introduce to it myself, I have never seen another Sharps rifle, but my own, I don’t know anyone face to face that I know that casts boolits it’s only personal experience and interaction with you guys where I learn these things.
THANKS ALLOT FOR THAT!

I am a man, I have respect, and choose righteousness and honor above all,and I do take pride in getting stuff done that other men fear to face, if you call that a braging, you are right, I am definitely a brager!

[Ozark mike]

Eh no offense taken I know people who go over to the break's or down around Dillon and take antelope with 270s and alike at stupid ranges in my mind that's not idea either. But it's a free country or supposed to be anyway if I was going to be shooting 500 plus Yard's I'd want a win m70 chambered in 8 mag or 378 wby mag but that's me and each will have there opinion. Just remember a 4570 will not be coming in at a horizontal angle but slightly vertical so it makes a hard shot that much harder

[rfd]

...I just thought it a bit more doable than it sounds from you guys, and I truly respect your views on it. I am 100%. New to BPCR shootind, But for interest sake what do you guys regard as a “proper “ long range shot” with a tippical 19th century long range rifle?

for me, on paper or steel, that'd be 300 yards or lots more. again - paper or steel, not flesh.

And what was the average long shot in the old days by buffalo hunters?

200 yards to maybe 400 yards, possibly longer. considering their equipment and their hunting goals, there is no question to me that a LOT of bison were wounded and/or needed multiple shots to kill, or take down to where a buff runner could dispatch with a pistol shot to the brain. killing bison was funded to a great degree by the government and the prime goal was to eradicate the buffalo and thus control or eradicate the natives.

I just would like to experience what they did.

there was no "romance" in the mind of buff runners, it was paid hard work, no more or less.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

[varsity07840]

many years ago i had an intense desire to be an expert at long range shooting. I had bill davis build me two revolvers, both in .357mag. I sent him a model 27 sw and a ruger security six. He worked his magic on them and they were returned with 10" barrels on them and they'd shoot ten shots into an inch at 50 yards out of a machine rest. They'd actually do it, and do it with full power mag loads. I spent a couple of years shooting woodchucks with them at distances over a hundred yards. That was either a hit or miss proposition, not much like crippling a deer. After a while i got tired of that and got into silhouette and started competing against other shooters to see who the best long range shooter was. Doing that, you could get all the bragging rights you wanted and nothing suffered but your ego. It was a lot of fun going to the matches and meeting other shooters and doing your best to beat your new found friends. I never got into rifle silhouette, but it's a pretty good game still going today. Take your single shot rifle to a match and shoot with some guys who shoot out to six hundred yards with their single shots....and do pretty good at it. Shooting steel buffalo it doesn't matter if you hit them in the butt or the horn, it all counts and there's no cripples to contend with. You'll learn a lot, get to have some bragging rights of your own, and probably make friends that you'll have for a lifetime. Those guys just love to share what they know and they love to win also. Save the ego shots for steel and use your new found abilities making ethical shots on game animals that deserve more than just being a target. I get where you're coming from, i probably suffered from some of it myself way back in my younger days. Somewhere along the line i found out i could satisfy my shooting ego at the range and go out hunting and just have a good time making a good shot once in a while. Just give it some thought about what you're trying to accomplish shooting. Good luck.

well said.

[country gent]

Not offended or disturbed here. I only felt doing some actual testing first hand would give you an idea f whats involved. The legends, fables, or " history" of the legendary bufflo rifles brings this to light every so often. In reality the buffalo hunter may have used known tatics rather than long range shooting. I have read several accounts of taking the lead cow first and then the herd as they milled around. As the hunting then was a business proposition Id bet 300 yds was a long shot

[EVR]

I won't wade in here except to say just a few things.

I own a 1000 meter range. Have it right here on my ranch. I also over the years have tested many types and designs of bullets.

Much game is lost at close range. At 500-700 yards and beyond, bullet performance becomes critical and simply locating a downed animal can be a challenge in the mountains. A slightly off hit and the animal may show absolutely no signs of being hit at all. How many guys will hike out after every single "miss" and scour the site or put a dog on it?

Some years ago I developed the new rule allowing blood tracking dogs in Idaho. It took me about 2 years to get it approved. During my research, I found much very interesting information especially from European contacts where dogs are required or universally used for tracking. In one of the studies trained blood-tracking dogs were placed on every shot called a "miss" by the shooters. There was @ 40% recovery rate. That was on animals shot at typical distance, not long range. That alone should be pause for serious reflection on long range hunting.

While vermin are one thing, I have shot enough at long range to have made the decision not to shoot "noble game" at long range. I am not a fan of the current "long range craze" that seems to be sweeping the land. Just my $.02.

[NSB]

Reading the OP's post once again, it struck me that he talks about shooting Springbuck and Blesbuck at very long distances. I'd have to guess he's somewhere in S. Africa. That doesn't change the ethics as far as I'm concerned, but it does make a difference in our hunting cultures. Hunting for the average guy in most African countries isn't like here. The land owners own the animals being hunted and make the rules. It's like shooting someone's private live stock for a fee. If the land owner seems to think that it's OK to make the shots he's taking, that's pretty much between the shooter and the land owner. It's his livestock. Over here we compete for the same animals and they're usually property of the state and sometimes are on one persons property or an others. Sometimes the animal is on public property. My point is that we take a deeper interest in sharing the resources among ourselves. The best I can offer the OP is that it's not considered ethical here and will concede that it may not even be a consideration where he is. Still, conscience should dictate some regard for the animal where ever it is. But in the end, I'll respect his decision after sharing my view on the subject. I think I've beat him up enough at this point and just hope he reconsiders his shots based on what we've shared with him. I have some personal friends who live in S. Africa and have taken them hunting here in the U.S., but I never got into the ethical side of hunting there. While here, they did as I did and I guess that's worth something.