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Thread: Newbe - first time cold rust blue

  1. #1
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    Newbe - first time cold rust blue

    Adventures of a newby...
    I just thought I would show you where I am in the home bluing process. I am using the Laurel Mountain product.
    I completed the metal prep to 320 grit and degressed the barrel . I hope I did it right!

    I made two wooden plugs for the barrel as much for handles as to keep the barrel dry (?).
    Then, following directions I swabbed on a thin coat of bluing product using a clean patch.
    Wow it looked streaky, blotchy and in general like I did a poor job.
    Next I took a shower and put the barrel in the corner of the shower after I got out and after about four hours I put it in the shop so I did not forget and have my wife shower with it the next day!!! That would be a double ooops!
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    So about mid-day today (24 hours) I boiled up some distilled water in a large pot and heated the trough while empty. I started empty and added from a boiling pot to give the two stove burners under the steel trough a chance to keep up. I placed the barrel in held off the bottom with two spacers under the dowels. I started adding boiling water a cup at a time until I had covered the barrel. By the time the barrel was covered - less than two minutes it was dark black! I was a little shocked how dark it was.
    The directions say not to card it the first time around.
    I did pull the plugs to run an oiled patch through the bore.

    I have a second coat of Laurel Mtn on it now and tomorrow after I return from the range testing loads for Saturday's BPCR match, I will boil it again and card it this time.
    Fun stuff!
    Chill Wills

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    When I slow rust blue, I never have put plugs in the barrel or chamber.
    IF you do not get any of the bluing acid inside the barrel , it will not rust.
    And when I finish boiling the barrel, And while it is Still HOT, I run a Clean Degreased bore brush thru the barrel and then dry it with a couple of clean Dry patches.
    Never with any Oil on them.
    Any Oil near your metal is not a good thing, Even Hand Oil or fingerprints unless you de grease all the metal again before you apply the next coat of acid.
    I do a minimum of 5 rusting's on the metal, and do not scrub the next coat of acid into the metal when re applying.
    I always wear latex or Nitrate gloves from start to finish when handling the metal.
    You use a Damp Cotton Ball and wipe in one direction LIGHTLY so it dries as soon as it touches the metal.
    I Card or buff the metal between coats after boiling with a Carding Brush or with "de greased Steel Wool."
    Then after the Final Boiling that you want to do, I do not Card off the metal.
    Instead, I coat the metal with a light oil like 3 in 1 machine oil, gently smeared on with an old tooth brush and let it cure for 24 hours.
    Then you wipe it off with an old Clean T Shirt or soft cloth.
    The black stuff comes off easily when coated with oil and seems to give a darker more even finish.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Nice set-up you have there.

    I pretty much follow the procedure LAGS stated (NO oil anywhere near any of the parts during the process), except in the end I submerge the part in motor oil for a couple of days. I find the submersion stops any future rusting by cutting off all oxygen.

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    For your final boil out, you will need to keep it boiling or in steam around 25 minutes, or your project will slowly turn brown.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you waksupi ,
    I had totally forgot to mention Boiling times.
    Yes, if each coat is not Boiled or converted long enough in Distilled Water, ( 25 minutes ), you will end up with a future case of Browning.
    But, that may be to some peoples liking, or their intent to make the gun look aged like when trying to restore something old but get it to stay looking older.

  6. #6
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    I have never tried to blue this way would love to see the results. Years ago a shop i worked at switched products and gave me a gallon of industrial steel black. I polish the metal to a mirror finish taking it to 2000 grit wet dry with light oil then degrease it and apply the black buff inbetween coats with soft rag usually 2 to 3 coats then oil or wax . I have had good results with this. But would really like to see your finished product. I may be on the wrong track.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    @ Red Bear.
    Slow Rust Bluing is one of the Easiest and longest lasting bluing jobs that you can do at home, with Minimum Investment.
    It will not give you a Polished Hi Gloss bluing.
    But the protection is second to none as far as Bluing Protection of the metal.
    These rifles, as are almost all of my rifles are done in Slow Rust Bluing at Home
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Turk custom 25-06 005.jpg   Scope Mounts 006.jpg  

  8. #8
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    Lags- I really like the sculpted bolt release area on the 98 Mauser stock. Neat!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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    The second cycle of Laurel Mountain slow rust and boil is complete and the barrel is back in the new/scrap wood sweat box starting its third round of rust.

    Second round not so nearly as dramatic as the first round. The formerly in the white, 320 grit barrel finish is now dark and almost black. However, there are plenty of streaky blotchy uneven areas on the octagon flats. Even at this early stage it passes the across the shop visual test and does look like a blued barrel. Then getting within three feet, it looks as described above.
    Everything I read is to be confident that all the blotching will darken and blend in to a nice black blue.
    I am game!
    If it looks this good now and what I am seeing tracks with what I should expect for this second cycle, I have no doubt it will turn out at least Okay with more rusting cycles!

    Given this is my first experience with slow rust bluing, this is kinda a practice barrel. I have two more barrels to do right away.
    If this one just does not pass muster, I will strip it next winter and do it again with the experience of a few jobs behind me. Like anything, after doing a few, it should get better. Right now I am working out the operation as I go. It takes a little to figure out what is important and what is not.
    Also, I am having fun!
    If I can master this, it will be nice to NOT have to send out (mail) barrels to be finished. If only color case were so easy to get started on.
    Chill Wills

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    @ Texas by god
    Thank you about the sculpting on the stock.
    I also do the cheek piece with a shadow line underneath
    I have to get back into practicing my checkering.
    But for the longest time, people only wanted Smooth stocks with minimal detail.
    But I built mostly Hunting rifles.
    The two rifles that are side by side are actually the same stock.
    A Boyd Mauser Large ring, Pre Finished stock
    One, on the bottom, I stripped down and did a little work on it to fancy it up
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Turk custom 25-06 006.jpg   Turk custom 25-06 001.jpg   Whelen sisters 001.jpg  
    Last edited by LAGS; 04-18-2019 at 06:58 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    @ Chill Wills
    Be careful when applying the rusting solution to the metal on an Octagon barrel or any Sharp edges for that matter.
    Wipe the barrel in one direction only, with Even Pressure.
    The bluing solution if too wet, or you go over it twice will remove the previous bluing to some extent.
    Those sharp corners get more pressure or you are hitting them twice when you do the next Flat on the barrel.
    Also.
    When you are carding off the barrel, you will have a tendency to Card Harder on the sharp edges or High Points.
    Be careful.
    But you can also do a bluing Cycle that you only apply the liquid to the high points.
    That is what is nice about Slow Rust Bluing.
    It can be touched up if need be, without the bluing being stripped off the whole gun if you are careful.
    I chose Slow rust bluing over hot Bluing because,
    Most old timers that did Hot Bluing for years, ended up with Cancer.
    And the Toxic waste you have to dispose of Legally got Quite Expensive in California where I am from.
    They don't let you just wash it down the drain or sink over there.
    Last edited by LAGS; 04-18-2019 at 06:57 PM.

  12. #12
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    I've done quite a few using the Laurel Mtn browning solution. The first two or three applications will be blotchy but it will get better with more applications. I never plug my barrels. I rest them on stainless steel wire in the tank. I blow them off with compressed air as soon as removing them from the tank and run a dry patch thru the bore. If they don't have a hole anywhere to attach a hanging wire I make up a sight blank with a hole in it. Be very stingy with reapplications of the solution. Just get the barrel barely wet and wipe in only one direction. If you miss a small spot don't worry, you can get it next application. After you do a few you will wonder why you didn't start this process years ago. I got tired of paying for other people to rust my bores is why I started it. I've not rusted a bore yet.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    The Blotchy situation like said by Deadeye Bly will correct itself with other coats.
    That is the nice thing about slow rust bluing.
    You will notice, As you built up layers,
    Only the parts that are not fully blued, are the only ones that will Rust.
    If you tried to do 8 coats, I bet you would hardly see ANY rust on any of the parts.
    But when coating the parts, do not try to get an area to rust if it wont on its own.
    You are just taking off the bluing you already applied .

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    As LAGS said, you'll know when you are done as the parts just don't seem to rust anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGS View Post
    Thank you waksupi ,
    I had totally forgot to mention Boiling times.
    Yes, if each coat is not Boiled or converted long enough in Distilled Water, ( 25 minutes ), you will end up with a future case of Browning.
    But, that may be to some peoples liking, or their intent to make the gun look aged like when trying to restore something old but get it to stay looking older.
    That is one reason I like the steam method. You don't need distilled water.

    I find I can get closer to a high gloss if I don't let a rust process go too far. I wait until I get just a hint of oxidation between steaming. If you let it go to a full rust look, that is what produces a more matt finish.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  16. #16
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    Yesterday, after the second rust cycle and the first carding, I coated the barrel as per directions with a very thin wipe of the Laurel Mountain browning solution.
    Colorado is know for its very low humidity.
    With scrap wood I completed a simple box roughly 10" square by 40" long. I placed the barrel in it along with about a quart pan of hot water and closed it up for about four hours. When I checked back there was heavy rust on the top half of the barrel and a lighter red rust on the lower half.

    I have been using our kitchen stove top (gas) to heat the steel trough and boil the barrel. Last night after dinner I said to my wife in a question like statement, "I'd like to boil my barrel again tonight -(?). She got a smerky smile and started to laugh. She laughed some more and said "yeah, sure - maybe after the kids are in bed." Hmmmm - there is a new unintended euphemism.

    Anyway, I got the tank/trough on the burners and distilled water going with the barrel in it as a cold start up. From the first boil cycle I had been tracking water temperature. Here at my elevation water boils at about 201F - 202F as best I can measure. So far, I was getting conversion from red/brown to black with water temperatures in the high 190'sF. This time I wanted to watch and see when this red rust would turn to black. Not knowing if water temperature alone or heat and time were the key factors. I still don't know enough about that to say.

    I did not drop the barrel in boiling water but started both water and barrel cold together.

    I checked with a probe as the water temperature climbed. 150f, 160F, 170F, 180F nothing. 185F nothing. 190F nothing.
    Somewhere between 190 and 198F the change occurred. That was as close as I could tell with my setup and poking around in the near boiling water. I am not sure exactly, and for sure it does not mater. When it goes, it does seem to change quickly. Interesting.

    After the boil I carded the barrel again. What was the under side of the barrel in the sweat box, the less rusty side, really is starting to look good. The top side with the heaver rust looks Okay but has fine dots of less blue or thin blue mixes with darker blue. Well, we all kinda know why. Or we think we do. I will say that the hot pan of water produced water vapor which then condensed in the air and in a micro climate, rained or precipitated down on my barrel equals greater/uneven rust on top.

    I am thinking this can be blended in with more applications.

    This is pretty easy stuff and I have no problem going as many cycles as needed and see how this plays out.

    Mr. Bly. We have a mutual friend. This barrel is for my son's first BPCR silhouette rifle, a highwall. My old shooting partner, Woody, sold this rifle to me with a 45-70 barrel installed and called it his five dollar rifle. It was a bits and pieces rifle -like he is so good at coming up with. He finds actions here, barrels there, a set trigger traded for who knows what ....wood he crafts and installs. A 45-70 might be a bit too much for a skinny, just starting out 15 year old, but a 40-60 Maynard should be about right.

    Michael Rix
    Chill Wills

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The reason you Boil the water or use Steam for that matter, is because at 212 degrees, the oxygen is separating from the hydrogen in the water.
    Oxygen is what causes the rust.
    Bluing is nothing more than Red Oxide , converted to Black Oxide.
    It is like a Shovel.
    You buy a new Shinny shovel.
    Once you use it, it gets moisture on it, then if left to sit, it gets rust on it.
    Then next time you use it, the rust scrapes off, and a it will rust again.
    If the process is repeated over years, the shovel will form a dark Patina or even Brown Patina.
    Then it will no longer get red rust on it.
    So look at a 20 year old shovel and wonder why, if it is kept out of Water with Oxygen in it like Rain, then why has it not rusted away.
    That is because it self Blued or Browned over the years.
    Cold rolled steel is the same way.
    That black coating on the metal is from quenching it in the manufacturing process.
    That steel doesn't want to rust until you expose the bare metal like cutting it or scraping it while handling the metal.
    But once water hits the bare metal, the Oxidation process starts all over and it starts to rust.
    It is more the minerals in the water that speed up the rusting.
    That is why you boil your parts in Distilled water.
    It has no Minerals.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I find I can get closer to a high gloss if I don't let a rust process go too far. I wait until I get just a hint of oxidation between steaming. If you let it go to a full rust look, that is what produces a more matt finish.
    I have had exactly the same experience and while it seemed counterproductive just thinking about it that simply was not the case, just the hint of oxidation as you describe it seems to work best for me. My theory about that is the heavier rusting causes micro-pitting (if there is such a term?) and thus a somewhat rougher surface, again on a micro scale.

    Also I early on discovered that, for me anyway, going too fine with the abrasive only caused problems such as uneven rusting and simply taking more cycles to obtain proper coloring sometimes not even being able to get the metal as dark as it should be. About 320 grit seems to give the glossiest finish for me and as I mentioned a year or so ago one of the best colored and slickest jobs I did used 180 grit! That was on an older shotgun A buddy of mine and I did one weekend, he was building a "utility" gun and simply wanted a heavy blue/black finish and wasn't concerned about being fancy. We finished with the 180 grit and I did the usual very light rusting (that 180 grit surface rusted REALLY quickly and very evenly), after about 6 rust/boiling cycles I was astounded at how good that thing came out! Probably I think the reason it did so is that the courser surface tended to rust more evenly and I am thinking it also made for a thicker coating of the finished oxide. Whatever the reasons that was one of best colored rust blue jobs I have ever seen and gloss was about as good as any I have managed to do, it was on a utility gun that was to be carried in a pickup truck but the finish would have been right at home on a nice high end shotgun.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I always Buff down my metal with 320 sandpaper , Then Bead blast the metal to get a better rust blue finish that is more even.
    You can, Polish out the metal to 600 grit, but the bluing solution is like applying water to Glass.
    It streaks badly, and doesn't want to rust evenly.
    But if you have the time and patients, you can get a SEMI Gloss finish, but it takes about 10 cycles minimum.
    But for a more Flat or Matt finish, I go ahead and Sand Blast the metal.
    That exposes more of the pours in the metal, and can hide minor Pitting on a old gun.
    I blue for Rust protection First.
    The Look is not of big concern since I do mostly hunting rifles.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I finish with 320 paper then red Scotchbrite lengthwise on the barrel. Then I start the rusting process. Mike, You don't want the damp box dripping with humidity. Water spots are hard to deal with. It sounds like you are learning a lot.

    I agree on a 45-70 being too much for a kid to start with. The 40-60 Maynard should be OK if not loaded too heavily. I'm taking a 14 year old to shoot his first BPCR silhouette match tomorrow. He'll be shooting the 40-50 SS that my son shot. We went practicing last week and I think this kid will do OK.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check