A2400 verses A2400

[44MAG#1]

Tried to delete post but couldn't.

[BHill]

seems to be a good bit of difference. Thanks for posting.

[murf205]

This morning 4-17-19 I went to the range to do some testing.
But, let me make this statement, if you are a Statistician looking for minutia to pick apart what information I am setting forth please stop reading.
I tested two strings of 44 Magnum ammo loaded with TWO different lots of Alliant 2400 powder.
Test firearm was a Smith and Wesson M629 Mountain Gun with a 4 inch barrel.
Both loads used cases from the SAME BAG of Starline brass.
Both loads used Federal 150 primers from the SAME LOT.
Both loads used the SAME Hensley and Gibbs #503 bullet from the SAME alloy sized to the SAME diameter seated to the SAME OAL and crimped with the SAME amount of crimp.
Both loads were 20.0 grains A2400. Lot number 785 Y081016 gave an average velocity of 1273 FPS with a SD of 16.76 FPS with an ES of 53.89 FPS.
Lot number 789 X 062118 gave an average velocity of 1130 FPS with an SD of 38.76 FPS with an ES of 107.9 FPS.
Temp ranged 45 to 49 degrees.
If you want to take this free information and use it or discard it please do so.
There is no difference in A2400.

I am a long way from a statistician and I'm not trying to pick your findings to death but it appears, to me, at least, that the 789 lot is a bit slower burning that the first one, hence the lower velocities. However, in a different caliber they could easily change places. I found that to be true with reloader 15 once before. I had 3 different lot #'s so I mixed all of them together and started over. 2400 is good stuff in 4" guns and I have had good luck with it.

[lar45]

I had some big differences with 2 lots of H4895 in two 9.3x57 Swedish Mausers. I tried both lots in both guns and they still had the same difference in velocity. I'm out now, so I don't have my load notes handy.
A long time ago I read about buying powder 3# at a time, pouring them all into a large bowl and mixing well. Then you should have 3# of the same...
I tried some 10 yo 2400 last week in a 454, with the Lee 300, and it was very slow. So I'm just going to to shoot it up with plinking loads.

[Conditor22]

My guess would be 1 lot was older and may have absorbed some moisture and the other lot was either new or sealed better.

[NSB]

My question is this: difference in accuracy?

[DougGuy]

Seems to me there was less difference in A2400 vs. H2400, and folks were saying there is greater differences in lot to lot numbers in A2400 than there is from Alliant to Hercules. Maybe they observed the same variation years ago?

[NSB]

Plus this is not a thread about accuracy since accuracy can and will vary from gun to gun and person to person.

That's true. However, all the data was from your gun and you're the shooter. I just wanted to know what difference it made for YOU. Keeping everything the same, including the shooter, I wondered if there was a difference in the end result? Simple enough question, not a trick question by any means.

[murf205]

The 2400 conversation has been ongoing since it became Alliant so I wont try to perpetuate it here. I will relate that in MY experience the old 2400 was a tick slower than the newer 2400. Or said another way, the charges that were safe but max, in MY guns, were slightly hotter with new 2400. The Hercules 2400 was dirtier than the newer batches that I have on hand now and both of them responded to les than max charges very well. I load the 250 gr 429421 with a std primer and 16.6 gr of Alliant 2400 and it is one of the more accurate loads in all of my 44's. My 2 cents.
44mag#1 you are keeping good records in your test. I wish that in my hurried younger days, my record keeping was more detailed, especially now that I have "senior moments".

[Shuz]

44MAG#1--Thanks for the information! Very informative!

[Larry Gibson]

Both loads were 20.0 grains A2400. Lot number 785 Y081016 gave an average velocity of 1273 FPS with a SD of 16.76 FPS with an ES of 53.89 FPS.
Lot number 789 X 062118 gave an average velocity of 1130 FPS with an SD of 38.76 FPS with an ES of 107.9 FPS.

I'm not a "Statistician" either but I do analyze in a scientific manner. That second load (seemingly identical except for different lots of powder) gives such a disparity in the ES (no mention of number of rounds in each test string?) as compared to the other test string of essentially the same powder indicates an ignition problem. Given that Federal 150 primers are relatively mild that makes sense. While Elmer always claimed there was no need for "magnum" strength primers with 2400 there still is a need for a certain strength of primer for efficient ignition of 2400 in the 44 Magnum. That is especially the case in a broad spectrum of ambient temperature ranges. I suggest the same test with WLP or CCI 350 primers.

Also given normal lot to lot variation along with string to string average velocity variation of the same ammunition there should be expected some difference between the two lots of 2400. However, given the 140 fps variation it would appear there is something afoot other than the difference between two different lots of the same powder. The large ES of the one test string indicates that. Additionally let us keep in mind that even with several test strings of the exact same load with the same lot of powder there seldom will be exactly the same average velocity.

[Larry Gibson]

Just trying to help you out based on 50+ years of shooting cast bullets over 2400, H110, Unique, 4227, Blue Dot and numerous other powders in the 44 magnum. I have been chronographing those loads since '72.

On the issue of primers; what works (the Federal 150s) without fail in the Encore with it's closed breach, no barrel cylinder gap, shorter throat and longer barrel does not mean they will always work without fail or problems in a 4" revolver. I have been there and done that and have seen too many failure to ignite instances in 357, 41 and 44 Magnum cartridges in revolvers with 2400, 4227 and H101/296 to ignore the potential problem.

Your above post contains the results of your test with 4 different primers and the average velocity out of the Encore are very close/uniform......as they should be. The question is; would they be that close out of the revolver? If not then you have a potential ignition problem with those primers under 2400 in the revolver.

I am not concerned about the difference between the 2 lots of 2400 as there will be a difference. The ES discrepancy in your recent test indicates a potential ignition problem.......that is what I am pointing out. To quote you; "If you want to take this free information and use it or discard it please do so."

[Johnch]

I use "Steel" powder to reload
I use it for Steel and Hevi shot loads

It has LARGE changes lot to lot
Lot #1 was IMO the best and I lucked into 10 , 4 lb jugs a few years ago at a gun shop that had the jugs on the shelf for years

With Steel Powder , high end reloading charts list loads by the Lot number of Steel powder

So I can see how other powder could have lot to lot changes that could be seen

John

[Forrest r]

IMHO:

Now would be the time to re-test using the same reloads, but this time use the encore. Not looking for ignition issues. Simply looking at if 1 lot is slower then the other lot. The longer bbl will pick up on that.

Awhile back I did some testing using 2400, h110 & mp-300 with 158gr bullets in 357mag cases. The bbl lengths were 2 1/2", 4", 6", 8" & 10" long. The 2400 smoked/out performed the h110 & mp-300 in the 2 1/2" bbl. They were all about = in the 4" bbl. The h100 & mp-300 started to pull ahead velocity wise with the 6" bbl & the 2400 couldn't keep up in the 8" & 10" bbl.'s.

[Forrest r]

Really nothing to explain. I have no idea why you'd make load data for 1 length bbl and another load data for a different bbl length.

Simple enough, you stated a huge difference in the 2 lots of powders. Larry asked about ignition issues & you said there weren't any. That leaves differences in burn rates. A longer bbl will pick up on the difference in burn rates. EI the lot that was +/- 100fps slower in the 4" bbl is now +/- 50fps faster in the longer bbl then the other lot.

The real question becomes what does it mean "if" both lots of powder are within +/- 20fps of each other in the encore bbl?