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Thread: How many of these myths do you still believe?

  1. #61
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post

    What it's down to is placement, penetration, and maybe diameter, if you can get it without sacrificing the first two. We can generally place rounds much better if they aren't beating the **** out of us; penetration is almost purely a factor of tuning bullet design rather than the cartridge that launches it; and diameter isn't going to vary more than a few tenths of an inch with any gun we'd likely carry. If getting that diameter gives you a harder to control pistol that is either placing your rounds MULTIPLE inches from your intended point of aim, or it slows you down to where you can only drill ONE hole to effective depth instead of two or even three, what does the extra couple tenths actually DO for you?

    So while NO, I won't be taking along a Walther PPK full of ball ammo to Alaska for my final defense against Kodiak bears, I no longer regard the concept as suicidally insane as I would have 30 years ago.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  2. #62
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    [QUOTE=Ozark mike;4632859..... my 58 remmie is all I need.[/QUOTE]

    I used a chronograph with my 58 and found that the ~140gn round ball at 1300fps was close to .357Mag velocities. So, yeah, it does the job.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    I used a chronograph with my 58 and found that the ~140gn round ball at 1300fps was close to .357Mag velocities. So, yeah, it does the job.
    If you think that a .36 round ball going roughly the same speed as a modern jacketed hollow-point .357 magnum is equal or even close to having the same capability of said hollow-point to damage tissue and incapacitate an attacker, then I don't know where to begin...
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    I used a chronograph with my 58 and found that the ~140gn round ball at 1300fps was close to .357Mag velocities. So, yeah, it does the job.
    Not a 44 cal 1858 Remmy but I did take one deer with Ruger Old Army with a 143 gr. 45 cal. round ball at just a hair over 1,100 FPS. The wound channel was more impressive than expected. Double lung and about 40 or 50 yard recovery. Not as much as claimed below but way more than I expected.

    https://www.shootersforum.com/handgu...t-loads-2.html

    Gentlemen I hunt in Florida with a 12 in stainless Pietta 1858 revolver and have had great success. My hunting load is 37 gr of 777 powder, a wad and a .454 ball. I chronograph this load at 1250fps/450ftlbs. This gun and load has proven very effective against wild boar and white tail deer. You can see a few pics of my kills at the yahoo percussion revolver forum and look at the pics with my name (BPpistolhunter).

    I have been hunting with cap and ball revolvers for over a decade and they will perform admirable if loaded with 777 powder and ball or bullet. The wound channels are horrendous and the impact shots very dramatic. The soft lead projectile expands quickly producing jagged edges that tear thru flesh rather than push it aside. Would channels are more dramatic than any 357, 44 mag or 45lc that we have ever used. I have never needed a second shot and I make it a rule not to shoot past 50 yards. These guns work very well against wild boar and deer. Elmer Keith state in his book six guns " a 44 or 45 calibre ball driven at a good speed has a killing factor way out of proportion to the calibre" He should know what he was talking about as he did his fair share of hunting and was the father of the 44 magnum. I know they work from experience, I encourage you to check out my pics.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-26-2019 at 02:32 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
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  5. #65
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho45guy View Post
    If you think that a .36 round ball going roughly the same speed as a modern jacketed hollow-point .357 magnum is equal or even close to having the same capability of said hollow-point to damage tissue and incapacitate an attacker, then I don't know where to begin...
    He said a 140grn rb so that would imply 44. 80 grns for 357
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  6. #66
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Yes a 45 rb @1200 fps Does some impressive damage
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  7. #67
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    Happened not far from where I am writing this

    "While in Springfield, Hickok and a local gambler named Davis Tutt had several disagreements over unpaid gambling debts and their mutual affection for the same women. Hickok lost a gold watch to Tutt in a poker game. The watch had great sentimental value to Hickok and he asked Tutt not to wear it in public. They initially agreed not to fight over the watch, but when Hickok saw Tutt wearing it, he warned him to stay away. On July 21, 1865, the two men faced off in Springfield's town square, standing sideways before drawing and firing their weapons. Their quick-draw duel was recorded as the first of its kind.[25] Tutt's shot missed, but Hickok's struck Tutt through the heart from about 75 yards (69 m) away. Tutt called out, "Boys, I'm killed" before he collapsed and died.[26][27]"
    Leftapedia

    .36" ball at around 750 +/- fps
    Seems effective to me

  8. #68
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    Yes, the 58 Remington is a .44. And yes, a pure lead round ball expands when it hits. Not as well as some of the modern hollow points, but, just as well as soft points, so I consider the comparison valid.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    I am reminded of the saying, "Trust. But verify.". Prez R. Reagan used it a lot, but it is actually, from what I understand, a Russian "proverb". Anyhow, in reading this topic, it came to mind.
    I’ve tried to verify my beliefs about SD ammo, but there’s a dearth of volunteers.

  10. #70
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    Thanks for sharing the article.

  11. #71
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    I always found the biggest debates centred around handguns for some reason. I think its because a lot of purchases are obviously for self defense we don't get to use them for it much(thankfully).Unlike say rifles we are buying for recreational shooting and get to use them a lot for such.
    Last edited by mickbr; 05-28-2019 at 08:01 PM.

  12. #72
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I said many times that i have talked to lawyers who said that the type of ammo was brought up in court it was dispelled but it did cost the client for expert counter. I carry factory ammo in my guns. And as for taking deliberate aim this is just not realistic for most people . Once the excitement takes over you resort to instinct. I watched a video of an officer lose his life because he forgot to reload and just kept pulling the trigger on an empty gun. I practice on a pistol range 7 to 15 yards rapid fire and reloading. because thats the most likely thing to happen. I doubt amy one does the research on there hand gun ammo that the manufacturer does. A cap and ball will definitely do someone in but just hope you don't need a reload. I normally carry a large caliber gun 41 mag but there are times that that just wount work i don't feel under gunned with a 22 ,25, or 32. You can't make up for poor pistol handling with a bigger caliber. Most people will stop doing bad things when shot with anything and for those who don't thats why you don't carry a single shot. All of this is just my opinion not saying i am right or wrong if you don't agree then by all means do what floats your boat. And yes i have been shot at a few times it was not pleasant and don't plan on repeating it if possible.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    I doubt amy one does the research on there hand gun ammo that the manufacturer does.
    My reloads for self-defense use a Speer Gold Dot 165gr bullet going 1150fps. Cost is $.30 each.

    Speer factory loaded ammunition uses the same bullet going the same speed. Only they cost $1.20 each.

    Please explain to me how my reloads are any different from the factory stuff. Specifically, tell me how the same bullet going the same speed will not be as effective as factory loaded ammunition, since you are implying that reloaded self-defense ammo is inferior and not as effective as factory self-defense ammo.
    Last edited by Idaho45guy; 05-29-2019 at 10:00 AM.
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

  14. #74
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    I'm glad I finally made it to the end. This is the most worthless thread in all of Cast Boolits......

  15. #75
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    Idaho45 you are duplicating a factory load therefore it should preform as a factory load. I was mainly referring to some ones pet loads. I should have been clear. Although i still carry factory ammo even if i can recreate it. It may seem like a waste but dog gone it i am worth it just ask the misses.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED BEAR View Post
    Idaho45 you are duplicating a factory load therefore it should preform as a factory load. I was mainly referring to some ones pet loads. I should have been clear. Although i still carry factory ammo even if i can recreate it. It may seem like a waste but dog gone it i am worth it just ask the misses.
    Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification!
    "Luck don't live out here. Wolves don't kill the unlucky deer; they kill the weak ones..." Jeremy Renner in Wind River

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check