Smooth bores?

[Ozark mike]

I was kinda thinking the fins could catch some air like a model rocket fins and impart rotation

[faustus]

Faustus: That is a pretty decent group at 50 yards !
...

Randy, thanks .... but yes, those Federal TruBall Foster slugs give me clover leaves at 50 yards out of my guns. And I have tried them out of a couple of guns ....

I wish there was a way to reverse engineer those slugs for our hobby garage ....

[longbow]

Randy:

What is the slug on the right side in your post #40? It looks like the new AQ slug but different tail wad.

You should try the AQ's if you haven't. BPI has them for sale again... "new and improved" ~ they were darn good before in my experience! They work for both rifled barrel and smoothbore though I only shot them from smoothbore.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

LB: it is a new AQ slug sitting atop a BW12 wad with the top gas seal trimmed off. That slug won't fit in a shot cup as they are full bore at .730 and the fins are flared out to .740 at the base. Sitting atop a BW12 seems like the most prudent way to load them.

I will shoot them from both just to see what happens.

I also brought a bag full of the nice Blue Federal Low Recoil Slug Hulls back with me from Front Sight. They reload the Lyman and Lee slugs really nice and re-roll crimp easily. You've got to get a set of those Grabbers with the suction cups on the ends (Harbor Freight $6-8) for picking up hulls. I left all the ones that had been stepped on and you can easily inspect each one as you pick it up with the grabbers. There were literally hundreds of them and I just picked up a Walmart Bag full and was satisfied. Probably got close to 200.

Randy

[longbow]

Okay, I couldn't make out the AQ tailwad with vanes in the pic until I looked back at it. I thought that was all one long tail wad on "something" that looked like a Lee 7/8 oz. slug but not quite.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

You wish I'd figured that out. HA! You are so far ahead on that one you should have it completely wired by now. The attached wad is a good idea and Wilhelm figured it out about 120 years ago. No need to reinvent the wheel here, just screw the wads to the slugs and be done with it. You already have this figured out. All you have to do is figure out how to make them nice and consistent.

No, I got some AQ's just to try out and see if they are that good. Once again we see that they are Swaged meaning the trailing edge is perfect on every one. When you get them you have to push the tail into the slug itself so "Some Assembly Required." I love my little Sinclair Arbor Press!

I also got some 1 1/8 oz. Thug slugs which are made by Gualandi. I bought a Kit from BPI which had 25 slugs and 25 Rio Primed Hulls. You supply the Powder and Roll Crimp and you're good to go. I see these as being the closest thing to Brenneke's that you can load at home, and for the limited amount of usage they will see (IE: Hunting or backup rounds on the gun) $21 for the Kit was reasonable. The Brenneke's I bought were $8 for a box of 5 which is reasonable. But they were literally nothing more than .11 Clear Rios loaded with a Brenneke Slug. Nothing special there and when you consider that 25 of them would be $40, the BPI Thug Slug Kit is a good deal at close to half the price. Interesting to see just how the Thug Slugs would stack up next to the Brenneke's loaded to the same velocity. Bet there wouldn't be that much difference. The sides are nearly Identical. On the noses the Thugs have an INie and the Brenneke's have an Outie.

Be interesting to see if anything that got hit by either one would know the difference,.

All I need is some Ballistic Jello.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was kinda thinking the fins could catch some air like a model rocket fins and impart rotation

Mike: this is a standard Misconception I think created by the name "Rifled Slug" If you don't know, the ribs are there to give the lead somewhere to go when shoved thru a choke. I do however believe, and some tests with high speed cameras (taofledermaus) have shown, that the slugs do rotate slowly. I attribute this to those ribs "biting" in the bore or choke and imparting some spin.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

The old AQ's came assembled! I haven't checked the new price but the old ones when I bought them about 10 years ago ran $15 US for 25 and they came in a nice tray all assembled.

The old ones looked like a round ball but had about a 3/8" hole about 2/3 of the way through and a slightly flat bottom. The tail wad had a tit sticking out (I pulled one apart) and that was pressed into the hole in the ball. The "ball" was obviously swaged and quite soft lead. The tail wad seemed like polyethylene or similar plastic... kinda slippy like but not Teflon.

I think the Thug slugs are soft(ish) lead where the Brennekes are more like zinc they are so hard. That may make a difference in terminal performance. I'd prefer both AQ's and Thug slugs harder but then I likely won't buy many. I will likely buy a Thug Slug kit to try at some point. I may very well buy some new improved AQ's too. Oh... like the Lee 7/8 oz. slug, the old AQ's would roll right up onto the nose with no help.

I will certainly be interested in your results with both these slugs... and others.

I'll stay tuned!

Longbow

[Apocalypse]

...

I'll have to try contacting SIARM again. No response to my last e-mail. If they'll ship to Canada they have several slugs and wads I'd like to try...

Here's the response I got from them last month on the same question:

"yes, all

not primers and hulls primed

best regards

giuseppe

siarm"

[W.R.Buchanan]

Something lost in translation huh? Even the google translator function doesn't get it right many times. Seems like they could do better but
I guess it is because there is no way to factor in hand movements and gestures in the Italian to English translation?

Randy

[AllanD]

I see comments in this thread about the versatility of smooth bores and guys eschewing the use of rifled shotgun barrels, because they lose that versatility as though they'd LOSE their smoothbore barrel...

I own two fully rifled shotguns, but still have the original smooth bore barrels and as we all know it takes seconds to swap barrels on most shotguns.

My Remington 870 wears an aftermarket Hastings scope sighted barrel.
My Mossberg 500 wears a fully rifled Mossberg barrel with Iron sights.

To be perfectly honest though I've put more than 50,000 rounds through the Mossberg,
SFAIK the rifled slug barrel remains unfired (Certainly it is unfired by me).

Though I live in a Rifle state, I bought those Shotguns while I lived in New Jersey (A shotgun ONLY state)
So, they haven't gotten a lot of use in the past 20 years....

However since I just started casting for my shotguns ( Lyman 525gr sabot slug) that may change...

[W.R.Buchanan]

Allen: I think you might be misunderstanding the overall concept a little. The whole point of the rifled barrels is to increase your longer distance accuracy. Most slugs are willy-nilly by 60-70 yards out of a smoothbore, (some exceptions) whereas the Slugs fired from Rifled barrels are generally good to 100+ a little?

The versatility point of the smoothbore only comes in when you need on the spot interchangeability of ammo, like if you are loaded with buckshot and a target presents itself at a longer distance, prompting you to do a Select Slug Ammo Change in order to make the longer shot..

With the smooth bore barrels in both my A5 and M500 I can shoot birdshot buckshot and slugs interchangeably in a Class or 3 Gun Comp. however the distances are going to be 50 yards or less. There is no time to change barrels so you run what you brung.

For Hunting I'm most likely going to be shooting slugs so I'll have the rifled barrels on either one of those guns, and shooting buckshot or birdshot will not be necessary.

I think we all still have all of our barrels. Kind of dumb to sell one, because as soon as you sell it, you'll need it. Best to hang on to it.

Randy

[longbow]

Also, some of us (me for sure) have always had a thing for the old Paradox guns which were mostly smoothbore with rifled choke developed by George Vincent Fosbery along with the sexiest slugs I have ever seen ~ the Kynoch Paradox bullet.

The Paradox gun "did it all" without changing barrels. I've always wanted an H&H Paradox gun but since a used one costs about as I paid for my house I guess I won't be buying one.

I may not need it but I like it and want a modern Paradox gun. Hence the desire to squeeze decent 100 yard accuracy out of a smoothbore. Since so far I have not been able to do it with home cast and home brewed slug loads, the next step is rifled choke tube. As skeptical as I have been of them Taofledermaus videos have convince me to try. Much easier to carry a rifled choke tube with me than a spare barrel. Will I ever need the slug/buckshot/birdshot capability all at once? Not likely but I don't care! I want it!

I know... there's something wrong with me! My wife says I broke some time ago.

Longbow

[Petander]

Will I ever need the slug/buckshot/birdshot capability all at once? Not likely but I don't care! I want it!

I know... there's something wrong with me! My wife says I broke some time ago.

Longbow

.

Sounds familiar... I might add tungsten shot to the cocktail,it works great out of a cylider bore. That covers my 12 gauge. I've also been interested in a side-by-side 20... don't really "need" but one barrel for slug and another for shot isn't bad either... 20's are just very nice... also like the "mini cape gun" aspect...

[longbow]

Regulation with the side by is supposedly a bit of an issue... likely hit and miss (no pun intended!). I note that the Kodiak double rifle muzzleloaders and the old CVA side by's have separate sights for each barrel for that reason. The side by double rifles took some finessing to get both barrels shooting to the same POA at whatever chosen range by wedging and resoldering until they grouped both barrels together. A cheap side by shotgun (as in not a double rifle) will not likely have very good regulation for slugs or balls. One method I have read about but not tried is filing the muzzles to bleed a bit of gas off to kick the slug a bit ~ basically poor man's regulation of a poor man's "double rifle (smoothbore)". I have been thinking of trying it with an inexpensive side by I do not yet have. If it doesn't work then the muzzles can be milled flat and perpendicular to the bores again with little cost and no damage except slightly shorter barrels.

Longbow

[Petander]

Yes,regulation -or the lack of it- can be anything.

I once built a load for a friend's double 8x57 and adjusted the regulation. It took a bunch of ammo even though it was adjustable with hex screws. The gun was for sale,I sometimes regret for not grabbing it.

A SxS shotgun could use a red dot zeroed for a slug barrel, the other barrel being for shot loads... Those Rib Rider mounts are handy when/if they fit right.

[longbow]

For some reason I do not understand it is apparently easier to make over/under double rifles than side by. I would have thought they both would be just as difficult to regulate.

I have always wanted a side by rifle but it has to be in a "substantial" caliber like .45-70 or bigger. The H&H Paradox gun has always been my dream but I will never own one.

Oh well.

Longbow

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Looking way back at the OP, it seems that the success of the Federal TruBall slug lies with that plastic ball in the base of the slug. Has anyone tried such with other hollow base slugs? I'm sure the attached wad does work like fins on a shuttlecock to vastly keep the thing pointed in the right direction. I read in some thread somewhere that filling the base of a hollowbase slug with Shoe Glue or silicone caulk improved the accuracy. Apparently there is something to getting the base of the slug to swage out to center the projectile that is good for accuracy. Ah, just another turn down the rabbit hole....

[Cap'n Morgan]

Longbow. An o/u will change impact in the vertical plane due to recoil and barrel lift. A s/s will also shift the impact point slightly sideways as the barrels are offset from the vertical centerline of the gun.