.45 Long Colt 165gr Ruger SP101 load confiration

[georgerkahn]

(as my planned loading is for a New Vaquero Ruger, I posted here; if in "wrong section -- my apologies -- kindly move it? thanks)
I have, as my "only" .45 Long Colt bullets, some cast round nose which weigh in at just about 165 grains. I recall loading these with Unique, and I think it was 6.50 grains of this powder behind it. I generally have 3"x 5" card on a Roll-a-dex with each cast bullets and load data on the front, and remarks re their shooting on back.
To express it as best as I might, I looked everywhere and then some for this card, with no avail. Starting with Ken Waters, Pet Loads, and then checking a half-dozen loading books I have, I can find naught for a 165 grain lead bullet. Same zippo re Load Data and Ammo-Guide on line.
Might you please share your load for this bullet if you have it?
Thanks ever so much!
geo

[Outpost75]

George,

Are you sure this is an SP101?

Last I heard that was a 5-shot .357 similar in size to an S&W J-frame, am I missing something?

In the .357 Mag. SP101 5 grains of Bullseye works well with the 190-grain Hunter's Supply LFN.

[georgerkahn]

Thank you, Outpost75, for noting my super-size error! After I wrote the text of my post, I reckoned to add the line at top, fearing I may have posted in not the correct area. I just finished a run of .357s for an SP101, and must have had that on what I allege to be my mind. More than a tad embarrassed, and 'specially appreciative you noted my faux pas -- it is indeed a Ruger New Vaquero "cowboy" single action, stainless steel revolver, in 45 Long Colt calibre I seek help on.
geo

[Outpost75]

Thank you, Outpost75, for noting my super-size error! After I wrote the text of my post, I reckoned to add the line at top, fearing I may have posted in not the correct area. I just finished a run of .357s for an SP101, and must have had that on what I allege to be my mind. More than a tad embarrassed, and 'specially appreciative you noted my faux pas -- it is indeed a Ruger New Vaquero "cowboy" single action, stainless steel revolver, in 45 Long Colt calibre I seek help on.
geo

In the .45 Colt the excess free airspace in the case impairs ballistic uniformity with light bullets of less than 200 grains and light charges less than 5 grains of Bullseye. If you want to use a lighter loads you may be better off using Schofield brass with 4.5 grains of Bullseye.

In my .45 ACP Vaquero, bullets lighter than about 200 grains shoot low to the sights. If you cut down the front sight to zero those, then heavier bullets in factory ammo will shoot very much higher. In my fixed-sight .45 ACP revolvers I use the Accurate clone of the H&G 68 200-grain semi-wadcutter with 4 grains of Bullseye. These shoot to point of aim at 25 yards, holding center of mass on the B-15 timed and rapid-fire 25-yard target.

With 230-240 grain bullets I use a 6:00 hold loading the same 4 grains of Bullseye, TiteGroup, WST or 452AA.

Very pleasant for indoor shooting.

In my .455 Webleys I use 3.5 grains of Bullseye with Accurate 45-264D in Starline brass which shoots to the fixed sights of the Colt New Service and Webley MkVI.

[georgerkahn]

I have the real-McCoy H&G 68, as well as the MP HP clone. Two questions: Would mine work OK -- I've sized to 0.452"for my present LC bullets, and do not recall if the H&G or MP would drop big enough for this sizing? Second question, is the Accurate you use http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=45-200H-D.png -- and, if so, what diameter did you request/do you have, for the Long Colt?
Thanks again, much. I'm a relative new-be to .45LC -- a case where I had fallen in love with the revolver, and now need (want?) to cast more fodder for it. (A FUN revolver, with from-factory the BEST trigger I've ever experienced!).
Thanks again!
geo

[Larry Gibson]

I don't recommend Unique for such light loads with <200 gr cast bullets in the 45 Colt. It just is efficient in that low end pressure range. Bullseye is a much better performer.

No 45 Colt info with 165 gr bullets but I regularly use 190, 200 and 205 gr cast bullets [452-190-SWC, 452-200-RF, 45-200-SWC (H&G 68 copy) along with many commercial counterparts] in my Uberti SAAs and Uberti M1873 carbine. I use 7.0 or 7.2 gr Bullseye under them which gives 1150 - 1200 fps out of the Carbine and 950 - 980 fps out of the SAA revolvers. I have pressure tested that load numerous times [Oehler M43 PBL and a Contender test barrel) and it runs right at the SAAMI MAP (14,000 psi) at 13,800 - 14,200 psi. It is also give excellent accuracy.

As outpost mentions 4g Bullseye or up to 4.9 gr under a 200 gr cast generally will shoot to POA at 25 yards, but sometimes not depending on your grip and sight picture. The heavier loads I use did require filing the front sights to bring the revolvers to zero. These light loads make for very comfortable shooting loads and are used by many in cowboy action matches.

While I usually prefer sizing my own cast at .454 (what my moulds generally drop them at) for the 45 Colt I do shoot a lot of the 45 ACP bullets that are already sized .452 with no leading and equal accuracy. A good soft lube like BAC or a NRA 50/50 formula gives little to no leading even after many, many shots. Many hard cast commercial bullets have a hard wax lube that doesn't work and will lead the barrel quickly destroying accuracy. I usually just give those a coat of LLA and let dry thoroughly before loading (usually a week+ of drying) and then if the bullets lead it is minimal and easily cleaned out with a regular cleaning.

Another tip with your light loads is to only NS your cases to the depth of the seated bullet. Your light loads will not obturate the cases hardly at all so they should not need FL sizing for many firings. The 45 Colt cast is actually a tapered case and FL sizing with most carbide sizers over works the case. back the FL die out to just size the bullet seated portion then adjust the decap rod to deprime as usual. Put a mild, if any crimp, on the case mouth when seating the bullet. There isn't enough recoil to move the bullets in the cylinder under firing. Case tension will hold them fine. You'll get almost unlimited case life with such loads and load technique.

Be careful not to double charge the case but at 4.0 - 4.9 gr Bullseye per normal charge a double charge, while it will get your attention, is well within the pressure range you Ruger can handle.

[lar45]

Starline has 45 Cowboy Special brass that's essentially a 45acp with a 45 Colt rim.
Hodgdon has load data for a 160 gn bullet.

[cwlongshot]

I agree. Try the heavier slug. I tried some 155 swc once to get recoil down to a powder puff. I ended up far better off with a 200g and bulky powder. Even my ACP’s dont care for those stumpy 155g boolits!

CW

[Tackleberry41]

I never got anything but garbage results w light bullets in the 45 colt. All that case capacity, even worse with light bullets. Only way I got decent results w anything under 250gr was w Trailboss.

[georgerkahn]

Larry Gibson -- I once again voice my sincere appreciation to you for the information you provided. I now have some Schofield brass coming (Graf) for my 165's, and will use the suggested Bullseye powder. The concept of a warm enough day for my casting seems and "any day now" reality -- and I have several options including an H&G 68, the MO #68 clone, and a few NOE moulds which may work. Thanks again!
geo

[FergusonTO35]

I bet Schofield brass is just what you need. I have gone to using .38 Long Colt brass for my light-medium .38 Special loads and get really good results.

[georgerkahn]

Well, THANKS TO ALL!!! I finally got around to loading some, and shooting a few (rain here) -- but ignition using recommended Bullseye in (also) recommended S&W Schofield cases was at 100%, with what felt like consistency in firing. Next dry temperate day I'm at range, I'll hope to take the Oehler 35 and chrony the firing.
It is my practice to make a "3 x 5 Card" -- I keep these on a Roll-A-Dex on my bench -- with my loading data on the front -- notes from shooting on the back. FYI, assuming you may have interest, I attached here my newest card -- with heartfelt appreciation to those here who helped me generate the info.
geoAttachment 240130