Getting accuracy out of conicals

[brewer12345]

I had my first range session with the new to me TC Hawken in .50 cal on Saturday. Got used to packing loads and god decent accuracy with patched balls, but the two or 3 conicals I shot seemed a little more squirrely. I have some REALs in 250 and 320 grains, as well as some TC Maxiballs at 370 grains. It was hard not to deform the noses a bit, and I did not realize that for many people using a wad is a key component of success. Any tips for getting accuracy with conicals? I picked up some wads today. What charge would you start with? This is for a percussion rifle with a 1 in 48 twist.

[yeahbub]

A trick I learned was to cloth-patch the base driving band on REAL's and Maxi's. I couldn't get accuracy I could trust until a fellow shooter suggested doing so. It made quite a difference.

[arcticap]

A trick I learned was to cloth-patch the base driving band on REAL's and Maxi's. I couldn't get accuracy I could trust until a fellow shooter suggested doing so. It made quite a difference.

It must be a very thin patch such as a .005 perhaps?

[bob208]

the only way to get them to shoot is to start them straight the same way every time. the only way I know to do that is with a false muzzle.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Dead soft lead is a must with maxi balls.
I always did better with patched round balls. Much less recoil too. Through and through on deer.

[Walks]

I've had a .54 Cal T/C Hawken for 30 odd years. I think my T/C mold will drop a 425gr Maxi-Ball. I lube using either T/C Bore Butter or Crisco.

I'm able to push a MAXI straight down into the Muzzle with my thumb. It shoots straight into 3+inches at 100yrds over 90grs of 2F Swiss Powder. With the Factory iron sights.

But it's a heck of a lot easier with a short starter. However the Short Starter can't always be hit straight on.

Or at least I could before arthritis set in.

[arcticap]

Usually the slower the twist rate, the shorter the conicals need to be in order to shoot accurately.
In most cases, shorter bullets means lighter weight bullets.
It's often better to shoot conicals that are lighter weight and short than bullets that are too long and heavy to stabilize.
Of course this is only a generalization since any bullet can possibly shoot well with any twist.
Sometimes it depends on the size of the powder charge which affects the RPM's of the bullets when fired.
The same rule often applies to bullets fired with sabots which can offer a greater variety of bullet weights, some as light as 225 grains or less.
For instance MMP sells .50 sabots that allow either .44 or .45 bullets to be loaded of which there are some light weight ones to choose from.--->>> https://mmpsabots.com

The old 245-250 grain Buffalo Ball-ets would shoot close to the point of aim of a .50 patched round ball.
Since Buffalo Bullets moved to Nevada, people have been waiting for them to restart Ball-et production.--->>> https://buffalobulletindustries.com

The Hornady Pennsylvania .50 Conical that weighs 240 grains is very similar to the Buffalo Ball-ets and works with a variety of twist rates from fast to slow.
It has a lot of favorable reviews on the MidwayUSA website.--->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...rain-box-of-50

[brewer12345]

Frankly, I would be perfectly happy to stick with a round ball, but I am expecting to get a cow elk tag this year and my state requires a conical for elk in 50 cal. That being the case, I need to figure out a conical of some sort.

In part, I think I just need more range time with the front stuffer. I will investigate the 240 grain Hornady conical if I can't get any of the ones I have handy to work. I suppose I could always buy one of the stoopid expensive jacketed or all copper conicals, but I would really rather use a cast projectile.

[dk17hmr]

My 54 has gotten noticeably more accurate with taper sizing my conicals and using an over powder wad.

Are you using pure lead?

[brewer12345]

The conical I have I traded for with another member who told me they are pure.

[Good Cheer]

The entries above tell the tale.
It's always a matter of how the bullet diameter(s) fit the barrel.
Typically you need a close fit. And to load straight without a false muzzle the bullet also has to be of a design that does load straight without a false muzzle.
And you probably have to prevent excessive gas cutting somehow (usually close fit, soft metal and maybe some kind of card or wad).

But if what you're after is just killing something then any shape of some metal that pokes the hole OK will work.
Me myself I love muzzleloading and have fast twists and slow twists... but none of them agree with each other.

[Good Cheer]

With the molds in the toy box I'd really like to have a medium twist .41 bore rifle to use various .41 mag molds and .403 round ball.


But I spent my stash of happy cash on a .41 mag single shot instead.

[charlie b]

My Lyman GPH is a faster twist with shallow grooves but it does much better with bullets sized to the bore dia (in my case .502). I prefer the Hornady Great Plains bullets, but, again, I size them to the bore and put a veggie wad, then lubed felt wad, then the bullet. FYI, those bullets have a forward band that is designed to engrave to the grooves, but, I had little luck using them that way. I do find they take quite a bit of powder to properly upset on firing (the force of the powder shoves hard enough to make the bullet expand into the grooves). Mine shoots best with 100gn.

My preferred method is paper patching, but, some find that a bit too involved.

With the 1/48 twist you need a bit shorter bullet to stabilize well.

One thing I would recommend is that you use really soft lead. I have had really bad luck with wheel weight bullets in front stuffers.

[Good Cheer]

Was just thinking on something...

If a fella was to have an old Lyman 445599 minie mold it could be pretty easy to have it modified to cast about .045 to .050 larger in diameter for a paper patched smooth sided hollow base minie of 300+ grains.
The skirt would be a little thicker to take higher pressures.
And the thicker skirt could let you seal off deeper rifling.
And it could be it would shoot well in slower twist .50 caliber rifles.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I would suggest 70 to 80gr 2f or 3f Goex / Pyrodex RS - Pyrodex P. The 250 & 320gr REAL bullets shoot fantastic in my rifles, but I first have to use a lightly lubed felt wad behind the conical.

Another great bullet for these guns is the 370gr Maxiball & 385gr hornady great plains bullet with the same loads above.

I just hope your hawken does not have that false bore QLA **** at the end.

Also make sure all your tang screws and wedge key are snug. Loose tang screws play hell on accuracy.

[brewer12345]

I think I will be trying the was on conicals and see what happens. I was fiddling with the sights today and realized the front sight was knocked all the way to one side. Sorted that out and used a laser to get things lined back up.

Hoping to get to the range tomorrow to try again. At least I know that it works and will shoot round balls. Guessing conical are just a matter of figuring out what works. Once I get it right, I will cast up a bunch.

[hc18flyer]

Usually the slower the twist rate, the shorter the conicals need to be in order to shoot accurately.
In most cases, shorter bullets means lighter weight bullets.
It's often better to shoot conicals that are lighter weight and short than bullets that are too long and heavy to stabilize.
Of course this is only a generalization since any bullet can possibly shoot well with any twist.
Sometimes it depends on the size of the powder charge which affects the RPM's of the bullets when fired.
The same rule often applies to bullets fired with sabots which can offer a greater variety of bullet weights, some as light as 225 grains or less.
For instance MMP sells .50 sabots that allow either .44 or .45 bullets to be loaded of which there are some light weight ones to choose from.--->>> https://mmpsabots.com

The old 245-250 grain Buffalo Ball-ets would shoot close to the point of aim of a .50 patched round ball.
Since Buffalo Bullets moved to Nevada, people have been waiting for them to restart Ball-et production.--->>> https://buffalobulletindustries.com

The Hornady Pennsylvania .50 Conical that weighs 240 grains is very similar to the Buffalo Ball-ets and works with a variety of twist rates from fast to slow.
It has a lot of favorable reviews on the MidwayUSA website.--->>> https://www.midwayusa.com/product/73...rain-box-of-50

I too am a 'Ball-et' fan. My Lyman Great Plains with its 1 in 66 twist, shot them very well. At my tree stand ranges, round ball is acceptable too. For anything bigger then deer with a .50 cal, would want a conical. hc18flyer

[OverMax]

Looking to shoot conical having modern like accuracy with a antiquated side lock design. "Twist-rate does make a difference."
1-32 is preferenced.

As for powder charge:
370 gr. T/c Maxi Ball cast: 70 to 100 grs of 2-ffg is factory suggested charging's.
250 & 320 grain REALS? There a projectile I have no experience in using.

[brewer12345]

Heh, I have no illusions about modern accuracy. That said, If I can get a 3 or 4 inch group at 75 or 100 yards, it will do. The vitals on an elk are a good sized target.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

some like to complicate things as we can see

Follow my advice with the projectiles mentioned and you'll find something in there thats accurate.

My elk load now since the rule change is 80gr 3fg goex or pyrodex p, lubed wad and a 250gr REAL. In my Traditions St.Louis Hawken with 1:48 twist, I can keep them under 2" at 100 yards.