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Thread: First Build Support

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    First Build Support

    So as luck will have it, I ran into something completely unexpected at a yard sale yesterday. There on the table was a curly maple stock and 43” barrel marked G R Douglas 45 Cal. The barrel has some surface rust on it, and I could see some fine rust in the barrel. I asked the gent where the rest of it was, and he brought out a box with the lock, trigger guard, and other bits and bobs. The story was that he bought the parts about 30 years ago, and lost interest in making the gun. His son took an interest 15 years ago, and for some unknown reason butchered the front of the stock and tang inletting before he lost interest. After about 30 minutes, we struck a deal for $100. I’m going to take some time and read up on this, but my initial inclination is to make a jaeger style rifle with a 30” barrel using the butchered stock. I know a gunsmith who builds fine muzzleloaders, and am going to talk to him and get his thoughts. I can have him replace the breech plug so I can correctly inlet the tang, cut and crown the barrel, drill and tap for the touchhole, and cut a dovetail on the shortened barrel for a front sight. Also need a buttplate, toe plate, and some other bits and bobs and have been studying what’s available on track of the Wolf. I’d appreciate any thoughts from experienced builders, and am in no hurry with this. I think I got some quality parts.
    Attachment 239416Attachment 239417Attachment 239418Attachment 239419Attachment 239420
    Last edited by Jkrem; 04-07-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    Considering the prices at this link below, although I do not know if they are reasonable or not, it looks like you got a helluva deal on your kit.


    http://longrifles-pr.com/jaeger.shtml

    I do not have any "support" for ya, but I am interested & would like to follow along as you progress if you continue to tell us here what you are doing & maybe even show some more pics as you progress in the build.


    GLuck!~
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    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Pigboat's Avatar
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    That's a fantastic deal and you're in the right part of the country to get anything you need for it. I think Pa. was the birthplace of the american long rifle.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master arcticap's Avatar
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    The "fine rust" in the bore makes it sound like it may benefit by either being re-rifled into a .50 or by having the rifling "re-freshed".

    Since we can't see it, that's only my impression.

    But even if so, it's still a great deal.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    If your anywhere near kempton pa. go to Dixions muzzleloading shop he's got all kinds of parts and advice. He's a smith of very high regard and has put out one of the best books there is on how to build a muzzleloading rifle. Best twenty bucks I ever spent on a book. As for the fine lair of rust in the bore that can be cured with 0000 steel wool on a tight jag and some elbow grease. It looks like the stock is an allentown pattern if you have enough undamaged wood I would consider making it a 36" barrel that should make it balance out perfect.
    Last edited by 1Hawkeye; 04-07-2019 at 09:55 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    They are about 1-1/2 hours away from me. Thank you.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    The Stock inletting can be corrected by glass bedding.
    It wont look perfect, but can be made to work very well.
    I have corrected many Kits started by other people that way.
    And if you do it correctly, it can ADD to the outlining of the wood to the metal..
    Try that before you invest in a different Tang or lock.
    Fresh rust or Patina may not be an issue.
    Clean it up and see if it is Pitted.
    Vinegar will remove rust, ( and Bluing )
    Boiling the metal in distilled water after it is de greased will turn it into Bluing
    Last edited by LAGS; 04-07-2019 at 10:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    You also have the option if the stock is inletted too big, to inlay a piece of matching wood into the stock, or inlay a different color of wood to create an Accent then re- inlet the stock as needed as I did on this stock that someone cut the notch for the bolt handle too big.
    I carved out the stock, and inlayed a piece of Ebony into the stock, then Re- Cut the bolt handle notch.
    Not the best Fix.
    But better than what it was, and cheaper than a new stock.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rifles I am Selling 007.jpg  

  9. #9
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Definitely not a Jaeger design. As was stated, most likely an Allentown pattern. Be thankful it's no bigger than a .45 caliber. I always found a Roman nose stock to be brutal on the cheekbone even in .45.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master bedbugbilly's Avatar
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    You got a great bargain - what you paid doesn't even cover what the barrel is worth.The barrel will lean up just fine and will be a good one - I have used several of the Douglas barrels many years ago for builds - allure excellent. Looking at the lock . . . someone should have taken the parts away from the original owners and not let them play . . LOL . . . why in the heck they would drill a lock bolt hole in the rear end of the lock doesn't even make sense. Take your time and you'll end up with a nice build. I can't tell just how good the inletting is on the stock but if there are some bad spots - you can always "graft" new wood that is similar in curl to correct their mistakes. The hole they drilled in the tail of the lock is repairable and the hole through the stock going from the lock mortise to under the side plate can be fixed with a dowel epoxied in. The hole in the lock repaired and the side plate mounted and you'll never know it. You've got a good project ahead of you and lots of fun while doing the build - enjoy!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    The hole in the rear of the lock can be repaired without welding, by threading a screw in that is the same size thread as the hole if it is tapped, then peening it over on both sides, then polishing it flat.
    The same can be done if the hole is not Tapped by using a snug fitting metal rod and peening over both sides.
    The metal when polished down should Brown or Blue up just fine and you will barely see a mark.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Attachment 239480Attachment 239482Attachment 239483Attachment 239488
    Attachment 239489
    So it sounds like the lock should only be attached by the front screw? Was curious why none of the threads on the three wider screws I have fit the hole in the rear of the lock. If I can find the right tap, does it hurt anything to attach front and back? Also tang is very narrow, and poorly inlet. I would have thought that a tang screw attached this to the stock, or alternately that a bolt attached the tang to the trigger group (which I don’t have!). Interestingly, I think I have almost all the parts necessary to build another lock, except a second lock plate.
    Last edited by Jkrem; 04-08-2019 at 03:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    there are a lot of things you need to look at.
    One,
    Since the Lock is inletted already, where does the barrel line up with the flash hole to lock.
    The inletting for the tang may need to be adjusted to make things line up.
    Your Tang needs to be drilled and countersunk for the mounting screws.
    I see no reason why you would need a thru bolt from the Tang to the trigger guard or Trigger assembly for that matter.
    If you could show some dimensions of the inletting if there is any for the trigger guard and trigger recess, we might be able to help you locate what you need for the bottom metal per what it was set up for, or make suggestions that fall with in your budget to get the parts you need.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Pigboat's Avatar
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    Judging from picture no. 2 it appears that the barrel and tang need to be moved toward the butt some. You need to find out where the end of the breech plug is at inside the barrel and make sure it's a little behind the flash pan.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    First off the Douglas barrel should be indexed so that the Douglas is either top or bottom. Douglas barrels were at one time top of the line but had run out where the hole at the breech was not centered. Also I use to fill in gaps if not too bad by taking plane shavings off of maple and epoxy gluing them in with stain. The lock appears to be a Siler which is a good lock. I have no idea what the side plate is but the lock is drilled wrong for installation. One bolt should go through the bottom part of the breech plug and into the bolster of the lock.
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    I built these three ML's. Sold others. the one is a rifle I built for my wife which would be similar to what you are looking at. The other is a 25 cal Poor Boy squirrel rifle. Up against a stock blank similar to what I made it out of. Finally a 12 ga I built out of spare parts and a barrel I picked up at a gun show for $5. The stock is a birch I cut off the back forty and split out.
    Somehow got the one picture to post twice easier to leave it.

    DEP

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Attachment 239530Attachment 239531Attachment 239532
    I’m learning a ton from the comments here and PMs. Here are a couple more pics. It appears that the original owner was indeed way ahead of himself, the barrel needs to be moved back about 1/2” to allow the flashpan to align in front of the breechplug. This will allow me to cleanup the botched tang inletting. At this point I’m going to try to make things work with this stock, if for no other reason to get some experience with inletting. I ordered some inletting black and am spending today sharpening chisels. I tried to get a picture of what was done to inlet for the trigger. Don’t see any floorplate on track of the wolf that is an obvious fit, but I can address the trigger later. Thanks for the comments.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I didn't think that the previous owner had set up the barrel correctly to the flash pan.
    But sometimes it will be hard for us to come up with the fine details without the rifle actually in our hands.
    Have you looked into correcting the mounting of the lock yet ?
    That is something that has to be done in conjunction with setting the barrel into the stock at the proper location..
    But since the lock is inletted already, that will be your "Datum Point" for the rest of the set up.
    The Side Plate that you already have can be mounted with Countersunk Wood Screws rather than thru bolts if needed, Or you can Fill the holes in the side plate also if you choose.
    It is your rifle, do it the way you want to.
    Then the Thru bolt can be set up to clear the Breech Block on your barrel
    Last edited by LAGS; 04-09-2019 at 01:17 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    LAGS - The two holes that are drilled in the lock align with the two holes in the side plate. I understand now that this in completely wrong, and that it should be attached with one hole through the bolster. I’m going to try to make this set up work, my concern is clearance for the trigger and sear near the rear bolt. The bolt is beyond the sear, so I think I’m ok. Worst situation is I plane the back of the stock to eliminate the lock plate inletting, fill the holes, and start over. A very nice brass side plate was in with the parts I got, no idea why they did what they did. Once my inletting black arrives, I will work on moving back the barrel, and inletting the tang. The lock inletting seems ok, with the flash pan snug to the side of the barrel. Note this is a straight sided vs a swamped barrel, thank goodness.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    @ Jkrem.
    You can retain the holes and bolts that are in the lock and side plate, as long as they don't interfere with the trigger or lock.
    It is just not the way other rifles are set up.
    But I believe that you still will need the thru mounting screw to mount your lock properly in addition to the other screws.
    But you make that call.
    Others may have more experience with , Bubba Custom lock installations than I do.
    But don't go shaving off the inletting for the side plate just yet.
    Lets gather all the info to help you make the best decisions.
    So wait for all the input before you decide what to do.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    When you go over to Dixion's take all the parts with you and they can walk you through the pre-build repairs.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check