O Press: Aluminum vs Steel. Will I Notice The Difference

[jonp]

Buy or build bigger than you think that you will ever need, you will eventually move from little pistol cartridges to big rifle cartridges, you will outgrow the 6x6 reloading area. I’d look for an old used cast iron ‘o’ or ‘c’ press. There’s a bunch on eBay.

That's what I'm looking at. I have used a Lee Single Stage C Press for years with both rifle and pistol and have been quite happy. I just picked up a 416 Ruger and the opening is not big enough. I can make it work and have but I'm going to use something different I think. I was pretty specific in that this will be a reloading, brass sizing press and not used for swaging.

[RED BEAR]

No you won't notice the difference. I have been using a lee single stage for more than 40 years on everything from 25 acp through rifle cartridges 30/06 , 8 mm , 444 ect. Never had a problem and its still going strong.

[BigAlofPa.]

I had a stuck 30.06 case in one of my lee c shaped aluminum presses. I tore the press off my bench trying to get it unstuck. I thought for sure i broke the press. Until i saw the lag bolts ripped out of the bench instead.

[Captain*Kirk]

RCBS and many others are GUARANTEED FOR LIFE (not just yours, but your great-grandchildrens' as well). How do you put a value on that?

[1hole]

RCBS and many others are GUARANTEED FOR LIFE (not just yours, but your great-grandchildrens' as well). How do you put a value on that?

Guess the value of that matters how prone the owner is to break stuff, even if it's cast iron. Fact is, the costs of eternal guarantees are by no means free, it must be added to the original purchase price.

Most any maker will replace failed items for at least a year or two. That's enough time to find any honest manufactoring defect so it's fair enough for some of us. Thing is, IF we buy stuff for the warrantee, those of us who don't break our things are just paying the cost for the clumsy few who do; what's the value of that to us?

[kmw1954]

Fact is, the costs of eternal guarantees are by no means free, it must be added to the original purchase price.

So that is why some items cost 2 - 3 times what other items of the same type cost?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I bought a used, older Lee Challenger press at a gunshow about 8 years ago, it had a light flimsy feel to it, which I didn't like...it looked like new, so I just sold it.
I recently was in a Cabela's, and they had a new style breechlock challenger press on display. It had a much better 'feel' to it. I wouldn't hesitate to use one, but I will say, I am in love with my Lee Classic Cast Single stage, the primer disposal through the ram is just the best system to keep abrasive crud away from wear areas.

[Captain*Kirk]

Guess the value of that matters how prone the owner is to break stuff, even if it's cast iron. Fact is, the costs of eternal guarantees are by no means free, it must be added to the original purchase price.

Most any maker will replace failed items for at least a year or two. That's enough time to find any honest manufactoring defect so it's fair enough for some of us. Thing is, IF we buy stuff for the warrantee, those of us who don't break our things are just paying the cost for the clumsy few who do; what's the value of that to us?

Let me give you an example. A few years ago, somehow the powder pan for my 5-0-5 scale (which I'd had for over 20 years) got misplaced. After I got over being upset, I called RCBS to order a replacement. The website showed one for roughly $25.00 plus S&H of like 10 bucks. When I explained to the CSR what I wanted to buy and why, and offered up my credit card info, she put me on hold and then got back on the line telling me "my money was no good", and asking for an address to ship my FREE replacement pan, which arrived postage paid in 2 days, no charge, with a nice handwritten note included, wishing me well. Several weeks later I located the missing pan. I called back and offered to ship back the replacement, which they refused, telling me to keep it.
Perhaps you are paying for that in the original purchase price, but I find that sort of customer service long after the fact, both refreshing and uplifting.

[JBinMN]

jonp,

Even though I have other presses to chose from for any of my loading needs and now only use SS presses for rifle cartridges, I have an older Lee O-press( forget the particular name but there is no primer setup or the like, but it looks similar to the broken one shown earlier.) & an RCBS R3 that I got in the early/mid 80's & they both work just fine, if one does not abuse them like some folks do & then expect the mnfr to pick up the tab for their abuses, because there is a particular warranty.

Pick one that suits your wallet, and I am sure, if you keep it maintained, do not abuse it by remembering to lube your cases before sizing, etc, and other "proper usage" as described in the mnfr user manuals & reloading manuals, it will last you a long time...


G'Luck! in your decision(s)!



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{For anyone/everyone... BTW, I typed some longer posts a while back, but just moved them to a safe spot to avoid hurting folks "feelings", & did not post again until now. Every time I went to post I was reminded of how some folks will just not take personal responsibility for their stupid actions & expect others, like the mfrs of a product to replace a product, due to the users mistakes. Do ya wreck a car & then blame the mnfr? How about your house burning down because you left something on the stove, then are ya gonna blame the mnfr who made the pot, the stove, or the homebuilder? You use a jack rated to 1000 lbs to lift something 2000 lbs & expect the mnfr of the jack to replace it... Sheeesh.
If anyone gets a press, of any kind, and are gonna abuse it, get the more expensive ones. That way they can be hammered on, driven over with a truck, or even something so simple as to forget to lube a case & get one stuck so ya have to put your weight on the handle to try to get the case out, instead of finding a simple less destructive method. Then on top of that ridiculous abuse, put the cost & personal responsibility of their own actions in making mistakes, on someone else, like the mnfr of the press & thus on the backs of others who do not use such methods since they have a bit more common sense & personal responsibility for their actions if they buy that mnfrs. presses when they buy them.} (< I had to put that in there since I have a hard time believing that folks think that "their mistakes" ought to be covered by some warranty instead of owning up to their mistakes & just paying for a new press or getting the one they screwed up fixed. Gonna stop there & now ya know why I removed the other post(s).)}

P.S. - I am not talking about misplacing a part. I am talking about "abuse" of a product. Just to be clear.

[Captain*Kirk]

Just to clarify; I'm not trying to put down Lee (or any other aluminum press) by any means or advocate not buying Lee products. At some point we have to make a decision to buy or not buy based on price; it can mean the difference between having a less expensive piece of equipment or dreaming of a more expensive model that you can't afford.
However, if you can afford the difference, be advised that there IS a difference, both in quality and manufacturers standing behind their product, behind a cast iron press and a cast aluminum one...at least to me. Your mileage may vary, but I've generally found that as with most things in life, you get what you pay for.
Good luck with whatever you choose, and let us know your decision and satisfaction with the end result!

[kmw1954]

I am having a very hard time understanding this perception of Steel vs. aluminum. There are many alloy compositions of both depending on the parameters one is looking for. I don't think I would like to try and fly in a cast iron airplane or fish in a cast iron boat. Same as I don't think I would like to build an expansion bridge with aluminum. Back in the 70'a after returning from the USAF I went to work for a company that die cast aluminum flywheels, couldn't imagine what it would have cost to cast them in steel.

Today I am finishing rebuilding my reloading bench top. I am adding a pc of 3/8" thick steel plate that will be drilled and tapped to facilitate swapping out presses, Kind of like the In-Line Fab Flush Mount only there will be just one plate. I could have used and found aluminum plate which would have saved a lot of weight only in my mind I would have had to move to a 1/2" plate because the aluminum is softer and does not hold threads as well as steel.

I will concede that Cast steel use in a press would be more ridged and more durable as to the bearing surfaces. One still has to chose material appropriately, in that if all I was reloading were small straight walled pistol cases aluminum or steel would make no difference to me..

[DougGuy]

Well, it isn't even steel vs. aluminum, it's cast iron vs. cast aluminum.

So far nobody has touched on this, if they have I missed it, but... Know why they make machine tools out of cast iron and not cast steel or billet steel? Because cast iron is very rigid, and it does not like movement of any kind, it is a very rigid casting that will resist bending and distortion so it keeps it's shape when stressed. A cast iron O press would actually be stiffer and more accurate than a cast steel O press, and any movement in the casting will revert to the same dimension it was machined to when it was made.

Cast aluminum is more resistant to warping or bending than billet aluminum, but it does not have the rigidity and repeatability of cast iron.

[1hole]

Price is a poor standard of value. We rarely get more than we paid for but we often get less than we paid for. However, everyone should pay whatever it takes to make themselves feel good.

I've been reloading a long time. I have or have used many tools from every source. So far I've needed two replacement parts, both RCBS and both about 20 years ago. One was a cheap broken press ram shell holder circlip, which wasn't my fault, and I indeed got a replacement for no cost. The other was my fault and I called RCBS wanting to pay for a replacement 7-08 FL sizer body that had rusted in storage, and I mean JUST the stripped die body because my original decap/expander stem and seater die was fine. But, they would neither send me a die body nor even sell me one! To be fair, I will say the very nice Customer Service lady did offer to sell me a new full die set for the full retail price, plus shipping. I politely declined her kind offer and immediately ordered a new Lee four die set which included Lee's excellent collet neck sizing die, their FCD (collet neck crimper) and a new shell holder from Midway for a lot less than her price for a standard two die set. ??

Everyone must buy tools according to his own values but I don't buy warranties, I buy tools. Thus, I always buy what I want and need according to the specific features, not its looks, price, or warranty ... or its web chatter one way or the other.

For example, my first press in '65 was a Lyman six hole turret but I came to prefer compound single stage presses. I bought my Rock Chucker II in '93, because I felt it was the best available tool of its type at that time. It's now well used but still in excellent condition. However, if I had to replace that old RC tomorrow I'd get a Lee Classic Cast even if it cost more (it doesn't). Truth is, the CC has much better user features even tho it has no lifetime warranty and I don't think I'd be risking much.

To each his own.

[onelight]

One of the advantages I can think of for iron over aluminum for basic reloading would be if you trim cases on the press from some of the posts I have seen (I don’t trim on the press) the filings if not careful can work down around the ram and the cast iron stands up to this better , best to keep them out of either.

[Eddie17]

I would go for the steel over Aluminum. I wore out a cast AL press from Lee. Traded it in for a cast steel press. What ever you chose, keep clean an lubricated!

[JeepHammer]

Highly unlikely.

The strength of an "O" press is high by design. The additional strength of the material (aluminum vs. steel) is not a huge factor.

The steel body may offer slightly better resistance to wear at the points where there is friction but a properly maintained (clean and lubricated) press will likely out-live you.

True.
Normal reloading resizing isn't that hard on presses, not like swaging or wildcatting brass is.

I have a machine shop, I've bolted presses to a 3" thick steel top and used a dial indicator mounted to that top to check for stretch in the press, and it's almost non-existent on an iron frame RCBS Rock Chucker.

It's also nearly non existent on a Lee 'Turret' (Tool Head) press.
These presses have three steel struts between a cast aluminum base and aluminum top ring that locks the tool head in place.

The tool head did move up & down, but that is easy to compensate for with simple die adjustment.

What you will run into is deflect (bend) in the ram, the 1" or less rams are usually slotted weakening them further.
I was surprised to find these are common steel, not even slightly hardened tool steel most times.

Since the ram has the entire length of the press stroke to deflect, meaning it isn't supported from press base to shell holder where it's loaded at the top of the ram stroke,
It never deflects the same way twice, causing different pressures...

Co-Axial press designs that pull instead of push the brass I to a die stop this.
These are inherently more accurate, repeatable pressures than ram up designs, just for the record.

Larger diameter rams (Dillon 'Blue' presses for instance) are ram up designs, but the larger diameter ram deflects less.
Larger diameter rams have more load bearing surface and wear less over time, cleaning & lubrication being consistent.

It's up to you to decide what you need for your volume of production...
A smaller diameter ram & 'O' ring frame works fine for smaller quantities of ammo.
An RCBS Rock Chucker is as simple as it gets and is very reasonable priced.

I believe you will find Lee presses are bottom of the barrel, and the price reflects the use of lesser materials, and lesser fit & finish,
BUT,
If it works for you, then it works for you and you don't need anything else or to debate more expensive units.
If it works, you owe no explanations, and quite frankly, 99.95% of reloaders won't find the limitations of the Lee presses...
They simply aren't set up with measuring equipment to find the difference... If it chambers & fires to your satisfaction, you have a press up to your needs.

There are a lot of reloaders shooting solid MOA groups with Lee presses & Harbor Fright calipers, they don't need to apologise or make excuses to anyone!

---------

When you get into making ammo for several different rifles of the same caliber, the OBJECTIVE turns completely up-side-down...
A total paradigm reversal.

You are no longer making a round that fits & shoots well in ONE rifle,
You MUST make ammo that is SAAMI specification, so it fits, functions and is safe in ALL rifles of that caliber.
(And hopefully you can work up a load that shoots well in all rifles...)

This is where Co-Axial (puller) presses shine for low volume,
And the big ram/solid tool head presses shine for high production volumes.
(Read: Cubic $$$ for repeatable accuracy)

And even more $$$ for adapters, jigs & measuring tools that can find micro changes in the brass/loaded rounds since it has to be tight tolerance SAAMI specification product...

[Captain*Kirk]

I would go for the steel over Aluminum. I wore out a cast AL press from Lee. Traded it in for a cast steel press. What ever you chose, keep clean an lubricated!

Has anyone ever worn out a cast iron press?

[Livin_cincy]

Generally speaking a heavy duty cast iron press is for bigger rifle calibers where you are forming cases. The other operations do not require as much force. This is where a shorter stroke of smaller cast aluminum press is nice. Many people like a separate press for depriming to keep the "gunk" off of their "precision press".

Blue Presses use cast Aluminum like some Red & Green Presses. A Red or Green press does not have to be Cast Iron to be 'good' or is it the better choice. Look at the functionality differences and see how you like the features.


You can easily invest more in "accuracy & precision" on your reloading bench than you will ever see at the range.

[JeepHammer]

*Edited*
You can easily invest more in "accuracy & precision" on your reloading bench than you will ever see at the range.

True.

When punching little pistol brass, it doesn't take much.
When you try to swage or completely resize a case into a different caliber, it takes quite a lot.

The old adage is still true,
"The first three considerations are,
1. Application
2. Application
3. Application"

I started with an RCBS Rock Chucker because it was 'Available'.
The store simply didn't carry any other presses.
I haven't regretted it since 1977 when I bought it.

It's maddening changing dies, no quick bushings, but it's rock solid and I still use it for bench rifle ammo, since I have to 'Bump' rifle brass to get it precisely where I want it.
The iron frame allows me to do that quite well.

I've since owned, and discarded several 'C' frame presses, iron or aluminum, they stretch & spring around.
Doesn't matter how strong they look, the true Turret presses included (not tool head) they all stretch & spring around.
The closed 'O' or caged presses are simply more rigid and therefore accurate in my experience.

I would like to see larger diameter, and/or harder rams in these presses, but since I don't make them...

[Traffer]

My brother has an old lee challenger aluminum press. He had the linkage glued together. It was awful. When I told him about my Lee Classic Cast (cast iron) press he looked at the pictures on the internet. They look almost identical. He kept laughing at me for spending $100 for a used press. I tried to explain to him that there was no comparison between the presses, they just look the same on pictures. But his dull mind could not comprehend what I was saying. He just laughed and mocked me for spending the $100. So I went home, unbolted my classic cast and took it over to him to show him the difference. I never saw him looked so shocked. Jaw on the floor and eyes bugging out. drool running down his slack jaw...when he came to. I asked him if he understood the difference..."wow, this is heavy" was all he could say.
Moral of the story GET YOURSELF A CLASSIC CAST. The challengers are like junk toys.