What is it?

[NyFirefighter357]

I was wondering about the shape of the crown. It was late and I couldn't find any reference that showed the crown in yours. I changed the link I think the 11.07 is the date made Nov. 1907 and it's black powder as it doesn't have a nitro stamp.

[gewehrfreund]

Very nice stalking rifle.
Hubertus is a common trade name for German hunting rifles; FWIW, he is the patron saint of hunting.
I read the proofs as follows: 1000 is the serial number, the rifle was made or proofed on Jan. 18, 1935. If you're sure the barrel is in the .380" range, this is where it gets confusing, because the 11.07 would normally refer to the bore size, which would make it something in the 40+ caliber range. I think the 282 is a proofers number, and the ES is anybody's guess, but "ES" is a common German signifier for single shot (einzel schuss).

[Rich/WIS]

The 11.07 is proof date, Nov 1907. Bore diameter is 118.35 or a bore of about .340. This seems small given the groove diameter is so large, but it is possible that this was a lead bullet round using black powder. The .340 bore was used on some nominal 9.3 rifles.

[rking22]

OK, That rifle is Beautiful!!! I bet it feels wonderful in hand to boot. I really ,really WANT one....

[dubber123]

Awesome information guys! Much appreciated! Seat of the pants I was telling people 1900-1910, so I guessed reasonably well for me

I am sure on the groove size,at .381-382" and the slow twist. BORE size is probably right about .376-.377", as a .375" boolit will start from the muzzle with finger pressure.

I'd dearly love it if somewhere in the proof marks, there was a pressure it was proofed at. I have a boolit weight range narrowed down, I just need a pressure window to work with and I can get started.

Thanks again!

[dubber123]

OK, That rifle is Beautiful!!! I bet it feels wonderful in hand to boot. I really ,really WANT one....

Thank you, it does indeed balance very well, and the sights just fall in place when shouldered. It weighs 5 pounds 13 ounces, so its pretty light for an all steel, long barreled rifle.

[NyFirefighter357]

A little recap:
Serial number 1,000
Made in Nov, 1907
Black powder proofed only
118.35 (9.3mm) was original bore diameter
ES is single shot
Cal. 9.3x57R, 9.3x72R, 9.3x74R or 9.3x82R?
I also believe the 282 is 2.82(g) is the amount of powder used for the proofing. If this is true it might have been 9.3x82R as you needed to proof 30% over max charge & the 9.3x72R was 2.67g for proof.
Read here: http://www.germanguns.com/technical.html

[john.k]

Doubt it.....282 gm is more than 1/2 lb...........1000gm=2.2 lbs.approx.

[NyFirefighter357]

Doubt it.....282 gm is more than 1/2 lb...........1000gm=2.2 lbs.approx.

I left out the decimal thanks. I fixed it

[dubber123]

Whatever it WAS, it certainly is not it anymore, as 9.3 is around .366", 9.5 is .375". It seems doubtful to me someone rechambering AND re rifling would have made such a blunder on the twist, going over twice as slow as standard. I would think it more likely it was originally some version of a 9.5mm intended to shoot lighter weight boolits, sort of the Express cartridge idea. What cartridge that could have been, eludes me at the moment. Thanks for all the new thoughts and efforts, I appreciate it.

[justashooter]

Hubertus or Hubert ( c. 656 – 30 May 727) became Bishop of Liège in 708 AD. He is a Christian saint who is the patron saint of hunters.

[dubber123]

Well, I've nicknamed it the German Keyhole Factory. I have only limited time on the weekends to fiddle with things, but so far I've gotten the LEE 250 gr RF, lapped it to .002" over groove size, and tried it at full factory weight, the bevel base milled off, then milled to 230 grains. !00% keyholes. I've gotten it milled down to 205, and opened the lube groove up to accept a gas check, but ran out of time to test. If that doesn't show promise, the next step brings it to 185. It's nice to have $20 molds to experiment on

[corbinace]

What a work of art. I would enjoy handling that fine weapon. How do people find these rifles? Maybe I an just looking on too low a shelf. Congratulations on your find.

[dubber123]

A small update.. I got a little happy cranking the handle on the mill, and ended up with a 175 gr GC from the LEE mold. round boolit holes and 2" at 40 yards standing with a step ladder for a rest. I still don't have dies, so these are cobbled together and seated seriously crooked, so I expect some improvement. Dies will be in this week, maybe I can assemble something better for next weekend.

[NyFirefighter357]

Great news

[dubber123]

Weighing under 6#, even 10 grains of Unique kicks a little bit, making it a fun rifle to shoot. It shoots a little high, which may change as I tune it in, but the sights are thankfully pretty well regulated.

[bikerbeans]

You have me convinced, I'll take it!

Enjoy your very nice rifle.

BB

[northmn]

If the 38-55 brass works in it first you have to get some bullets that come closer to matching the bore. I saw a Uberti 35-55 that would keyhole 375 bullets. Over bore rifles like the one you have shoot best with appropriate bullets and probably best with black powder but a faster burning powder will also work. Soft bullets to slug up to the bore. It will shoot if you load right for it. I don't know the strength of the action but BP equivalent loads should work. Get the bullets to fit the bore before worrying about the twist.

DEP

[dubber123]

If the 38-55 brass works in it first you have to get some bullets that come closer to matching the bore. I saw a Uberti 35-55 that would keyhole 375 bullets. Over bore rifles like the one you have shoot best with appropriate bullets and probably best with black powder but a faster burning powder will also work. Soft bullets to slug up to the bore. It will shoot if you load right for it. I don't know the strength of the action but BP equivalent loads should work. Get the bullets to fit the bore before worrying about the twist.

DEP

Oh, I know, and took care of that right off when I got the LEE mold. I actually got a little Lap Happy and it ended up making .384" boolits. Even with .002" over groove boolits, 210 grains showed signs of instability at 40 yards. I got a little mill happy and missed the chance to try a 185 grain plain base, and ended up with a 175 GC. Those strike point first and are beginning to group, in the 2" range at 40 yards with a step ladder for a rest. I don't have dies yet, and those rounds were with seriously crooked seating, which I doubt is helping matters.

Dies and a sizer should be waiting at the post office, I hope to get a chance to try some better crafted ammo this weekend. I welded up and turned a .380" expander to better deal with the fat boolits, which should help a lot with getting things seated straight.

[dubber123]

Well, dies and sizer came in. I honed the sizer to .383", and opened a spare 375 Win seating die up to accept the larger boolits. The welded/turned expander works slick, and leaves me with .003" neck tension.

I tried a few different loads, all were much improved with the new ammo, I have a lot of trial and error to go, but best 40 yard group from the improvised step ladder rest was .607". I followed it up with a .68" group. these loads were with 22 grains of H-4198, and with this light boolit weight, they are not burning clean, even with poly fill added. I'm not sure how much farther I want to push it though. H-4227 was cleaner and I may investigate that more. I never got the chance to try 2400, but thats a possibility too.