Quis Quis Quis, Quis Liberat Canes
/////////BREAKING NEWS////////////
Millions and millions of American shooters and sportsmen got up, went to work, contributed to society in useful and meaningful ways all over the nation and shot no one today! How do they controll themselves?? Experts Baffled....
I LIKE IKE
I fall into the “why” category because of the cost and lack of finish etc. as above one can get a ready to go lower for $40.
Some take pride in doing things themselves but finishing an 80% receiver is not a long way away from a guy that buys all the parts and puts them together saying he “built” the AR.
Back when I built my 50 BMG, from barstock, I contacted the ATF to make sure I was doing everything by the book (they also sent me a copy of “the book” for free). FWIW at that time, I was told that as long as I was not in the “business” of manufacturing firearms I needed no license and there were no Federal laws at the time that prohibited transferring ownership at some point. He did make himself very clear in that State laws needed to be checked also and in some cases were much more restrictive.
Now if you don’t care about laws and are one of the ”prepper” types there is the “flying under the radar” thing. Seems like you could purchase privately, just tell them you sold it, or most common just steal one, if one had nefarious intentions or otherwise refused to follow the law.
I did one...because it's fun. I kept my tolerances super tight, milled it on a Bridgeport instead of using the router and jig, and now I have an AR that doesn't rattle when you shake it. That alone made it worth It to me.
IMHO if you take 100 people who can assemble an AR and have them each do a 80% lower, your gonna end up with a lot of less than nice lowers in the 100 examples .
I made my own Kurt vise jaws to hold the lowers, and machine them on a Bridgeport.
The off the books concept is part of it....but it is not a huge jump from finishing an 80% on a Knee mill to finishing a 0% forging, I used the 0% instructions to mill my 80%.
The number of statements about it being illegal, about never being able to sell them, etc, etc demonstrates how poorly educated some members of the gun culture are.
Anderson lowers supposedly wholesale for $25 each in lots of 100. Brownells will put 100% lowers on sale from time to time, I grabbed an Aero Precision M4E1 for like $39 on sale, and snagged a Aero 308 lower too for a good price. 100% lowers are a great bargain right now but the AW ban showed us that "proof of life" as a working firearm may be key to them being grandfathered under some new laws that might pop up.
Bill
Both ends WHAT a player
Brownells is a good place to get lowers, both 80% and 100% if you get the Brownells Edge. Paid shipping on all orders except stuff like cases of ammo, no FFL fee on the Brownells end of things.
Bill
Both ends WHAT a player
Yeah, you sure don't save any time or money anymore with an 80% lower. If you just want to assemble a rifle and have good success, 100% is the way to go.
A friend finally got a long needed divorce, then he got a better job
He went gun shopping to make up for many dry years.
they quickly put the kibosh on him (stopped him) and made him wait x amount of time between purchases)
I left that part out and with me you are correct my spare AR lowers have all grown into completes lol working on a 6.5 grendel now lol. This is going to be my yote gun mounted a photon night scope on her and got me a heavy duty camera tripod I am adapting to hold her in the field since I am using it to scan the fields, I made the mistake of not having a platform to hold the rifle and when I found a dog around 200 yards out my arms were so tired I could not hold still well enough to take a shot.
Night hunting is all new to me and it seems I learn what not to do every time I go. Now I am debating do I really need to go buy a few more lowers since I already want to get a 6.5 grendel in a pistol.
Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon
That is for sure, very few machinists are also well versed in anodizing, so even if you are not a “hack” you will have a learning curve.IMHO if you take 100 people who can assemble an AR and have them each do a 80% lower, your gonna end up with a lot of less than nice lowers in the 100 examples .
Bought a couple 80% with lower parts for something like $60 each. I'm 07/C2 but never had done one so I did just cause I could. Picked up the dimensions and pin hole locations from a factory lower and put in the DRO on the Bridgeport. Took a bit longer than I thought it would but it all went together fine and works well. GunCote over oxide blasted should make a decent finish. No way it makes any sense $$$wise.
Pete
As the OP of this thread, I have enjoyed its progression and the thoughts and opinions of the other posters. I just put together my second AR, a 6.5 Grendel. Bought a fully finished Anderson lower which I added the internals and a little better trigger than come with most kits and a complete upper (from Midway). It came out nice but haven't made it to the range yet for a test fire. Thanks again for the opinions and thoughts!
Its never going to make sense $$$wise and never will and that isn't the idea. The idea is to complete a 80% lower that isn't registered at least that is my take on it. Finishing a 80% lower isn't illegal either and assures that your AR won't be picked up because in all actuality it doesn't exist. It also provides a sense of accomplishment to some that have never completed a project like this.
and yet know one comes out against some one building a flintlock or caplock rifle or even a cap and ball pistol kit.
It does hold water.
Before California SB857, I could buy 80's and build AR15's and no, the state does NOT know it. It doesn;t matter if they know about the bolt rifles and revolvers I have, AR's become a "non-issue".
THUS, when they later pass SB880, and other AR bans, then I don't have DOJ kicking in my door, because I'm not on the list of people they need to check compliance on. And Californians HAVE had their doors kicked in by DOJ and arms confiscated because of AW ban laws.
It's moot since SB857, but before that law it was quite reasonable to want an 80 "so the government does not know".
We can play the california card for "it's cheaper", too.
Let's say I'm a happy-go-lucky castbooliteer, and thus already own a vertical mill, a 3-flute 3/8" end mill, and clamps. You get the idea.
As a Californian, our government collects sales tax on out of state purchases, including shipping, charges $25 to transfer a firearm, and 'charges' me a 10 day wait on firearms.
Therefore, that $35 lower costs me $5 to ship, 10% (yes our sales tax is 10%) of $40, so another $4, and $25 to transfer, making that $35 lower now $69. The $40 80% costs $6 to ship to my door by FRB and I'm GTG for $46. sales tax brings it up to <$50.
So, it was cheaper. Before SB857 (which demanded a $19 registration fee among other things like serial engraving, etc)
By the way, why, 80%? government fear. This is the California legislative response to 80% firearms as soon as they caught wind of them, stretched over a few legislative cycles:
Starting 07-01-2018, self-made (80%) firearms require CA DOJ approved information engraved on the firearm in order to be CA legal [PC 29180(b)] and a requirement for self-made firearm with a non-metallic receiver/frame is to have the CA DOJ isssued serial number marked on 3.7oz of PH 17-4 stainless steel embedded in the receiver/frame (in such a manner that removal with significantly damage or destroy the receiver/frame) [PC 29180(b)(2)(B) and 11 CCR 5519].
No commerically available 80% polymer receiver/frame meets the 3.7oz PH 17-4 stainless steel requirement.
In addition...
1. All self-made firearms must comply with CA assault weapons laws and generally prohibited weapons (AW, DD, MG, SBR, SBS, etc) laws. [PC 29182(e)(1)]
2. All self-made handguns need to be made in compliance with CA unsafe handgun laws. [PC 29182(e)(2)]
Which means, in order to be CA legal...
1. A self-made revolver needs to pass CA DOJ safety testing. [PC 31910(a)]
2. A self-made manually operated repeating pistol needs to pass CA DOJ safety testing. [PC 31910(b)]
3. A self-made semi-auto pistol needs to have all CA mandated safety features (chamber load indicator, magazine disconnect mechansim, microstamping array) and pass CA DOJ safety testing. [PC 31910(b)]
In order to avoid all that...
1. A self-made revolver needs to be a dimensionally compliant single-action revolver. [PC 32100(a)]
2. A self-made pistol needs to be a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-open single-shot pistol. [PC 32100(b)]
^In order to remain CA legal, a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally compliant break-open single-shot pistol needs to remain configured as such while it is in CA. Modifying it into another type of pistol would be viewed as manufacturing a new unsafe handgun.
Starting 01-01-2019...
1. It is illegal to transfer the ownership of self-made firearms in CA [PC 29180(d)(1)], only exemption is for transferring to law enforcement for destruction. [PC 29180(d)(2)]
2. Non-exempt unregistered self-made firearms are subject to confiscation, and destruction, as evidence of violating CA self-made firearm laws. [PC 29180(d)(3)]
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THAT is evidence of government fear of gun ownership, right there.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |