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Thread: Working up a load for a 500/450 No.1 BPE Paper Patch round

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy


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    Working up a load for a 500/450 No.1 BPE Paper Patch round

    Trying to put together a obsolete cartridge [500/450 No.1 BPE] and PP bullet combo in a old 1890"s Husqvarna Rolling Block.

    Was wondering a couple things.....what is the ideal paper thickness with two wraps to cut freely from the bullet in most rifles?
    I have access to several types of paper and I believe a good paper for PP but it might be to thin if my memory serves me correct for past conversations here. The paper I plan to use is .002 thick....

    I am gonna buy a mold soon and was wondering what most think about a Plain Base or Gas Check base when it comes to wrapping paper. Seems my memory says most like gas checked if you can't have a cavity to tuck the paper in. Something about CG bases not tearing the paper as bad??

    Thanks, Randall

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    As a general rule, your paper thickness on the bullet should be about as much as the rifling depth of your barrel

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokepole50 View Post
    Trying to put together a obsolete cartridge [500/450 No.1 BPE] and PP bullet combo in a old 1890"s Husqvarna Rolling Block.

    Was wondering a couple things.....what is the ideal paper thickness with two wraps to cut freely from the bullet in most rifles?
    I have access to several types of paper and I believe a good paper for PP but it might be to thin if my memory serves me correct for past conversations here. The paper I plan to use is .002 thick....

    I am gonna buy a mold soon and was wondering what most think about a Plain Base or Gas Check base when it comes to wrapping paper. Seems my memory says most like gas checked if you can't have a cavity to tuck the paper in. Something about CG bases not tearing the paper as bad??

    Thanks, Randall
    what brent posted, but i'd say .002 paper should work at least ok. if ya have the paper, try it, nothing to lose!

    plain base bullet. no need for gas checks, or making things more complicated. extend the paper from the bullet's ogive to beyond its base just enuf to fold over the base but not totally cover it.

    no need for grease grooves, so if yer ordering a mould for PPB's, order out a slick.

    the real question is what size bullet diameter, and will it be a bore rider or groover.
    Last edited by rfd; 04-04-2019 at 06:08 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy


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    Thanks guys. I am gonna give a .460-429 grain grease groove bullet a whirl on on this roller. The lead a 1/2 inch in front of the case mouth is .467 groove depth so I have to start out fat to seal the barrel. Hopefully it will cut the paper by the time it reaches the muzzle.

    This cartridge was reported to have been a 300 and a 500 grain loading. Because the 2 3/4" case was reported to have never been converted to cordite due to its lessor power as compared to the 3.00 and 3.25 BPE cartridges, I assume this cartridge was a PP cartridge and was never loaded with even copper clad bullets. The bore on this old rifle really shines and it makes me wonder if it has ever seen black powder. I hear PP bullets keep the bore bright, maybe that's why it still shines after 120 years or so.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    What sort of rifle is this?

    Nevermind. I see you posted. Have you slugged it, exp at the throat?

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a couple 500/450 No.1 Express rifles (Westleys) and they seem to shoot .458s just fine, PP, greasers or jacketed.
    It is a superb cartridge which can duplicate the 3-1/4" 450 as you can load 120grs when using a light express boolit.
    It's probably a better cartridge actually being bottle necked and designed that way to fit in Westley Richards' 1869 patent sporting rifles.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Was on the Goex loading site for Olde Ensforde powders and there is BP data for several of the English bpe cartridges there, maybe one is what your looking for.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy


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    Thanks guys for all the help.

    Huvius......I would like to pick your brain about about your loading experience with this cartridge. Check your PM's

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy


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    I slugged the muzzle of my rifle and I am getting 8 lands and grooves. The bore, at the muzzle, is .452 and the grooves are .464....best I can measure.

    I have sized down a soft lead greaser in three steps from .461 to .452 and plan to wrap it with paper that will bump it up to .462. I assume the 90-100gr BP load will expand it out to groove depth.

    Is this the best way to go,...... or should I have my bullet be .002 over bore and fill the grooves from the start with the paper wrap?

    Will the paper cut better as it enters the rifling with a bullet slightly over bore dia.?

    This is a tapered case so I am limited as to how many card wads and felt wads I can use to adjust bullet placement and still keep the bearing surface of the bullet in the case for carrying stability purposes. This is going to be a hunting rifle for the most part so it might be better to have the bullet engage the lead/ramp of the rifling earlier so that it sets further back in the case.
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    Last edited by Smokepole50; 04-19-2019 at 05:48 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check