|
   
   
|
|
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Start at 1:40 in
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-07-2019 at 02:59 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
There in lies the issue. I am not talking about shooter induced error because of heavy recoil. I am also not saying that a rifles recoil makes it more or less accurate of a rifle. A 50bmg has every potential to be as accurate as a .223.Originally Posted by Texas by God
I am saying a rifle that recoils lighter is easier to control, and a rifle that you control easier is one that will be easier to attain accuracy.
I have no doubt that there are many experienced shooters on here that have great accuracy with every gun they have ever shot because they have the best ability to control everything because of their perfect form and function.
However, there are those other mere mortal folks like myself that could benefit from a gun that is easier to control. Add weight to a rifle and it automatically reduces recoil. Reduce recoil and you will find it easier to control the gun.
I agree. Inconsistency is what needs to be controlled.
The issue I was having, and why I started this topic, was I thought I was being “consistent” by letting the rifle recoil naturally each time I shot. What I realized, is that a lightweight rifle rarely recoils consistently if left to its own devices. A heavier gun does recoil more consistently when left to do its own thing because there is less recoil.
I then found that if I controlled my gun by adding some weight on it, in the form of my hand, that it reduced the recoil and made it easier to control.
For most the goal of shooting is to hit a specific target at a specific distance. The goal is a consistent point of impact. Groups size is a component but of very little importance if point of impact varies. Benchrest shooter with light calibers like the 6mm PPC and 60 grain bullets are fond of free recoil. The only contact they make with the firearm is touching the trigger. For that game it is a proven match winning technique. If done correctly on lighter recoiling rifles free recoil can be used to check the potential accuracy of a firearm also. Other than that free recoil has very little real world applications since shot opportunities rarely include a benchrest, front and rear rests with bags. For most shooting applications the shooter must learn to interact with the firearm consistently.
Adding weight is introducing an additional variable that has to be accounted for and it can be a Band-Aid fix that changes point of impact. Sighting in with your hand on top of the scope to induce more weight may allow the shooter to shoot a smaller group, however, unless it is done identically when hunting or shooting from the various positions you actually use in the field you have negatively affected the point of impact. Kind of defeats the propose. Same for sighting in with leadsled and not shooting from the actual positions you expect shoot from to confirm POI.
Like it or not anyone that wants to develop as a shooter has to learn how to be as consistent as possible from their actual shooting postions. Poor techniques may influence heavy light recoiling firearms less but poor techniques are still poor techniques. If you can't shoot a heavier recoiling firearm as well as the same type firearm with a lighter recoil you have a technique problem. Same for a hand on the scope off of the bench. This technique Band-Aid fixes both poor trigger control and inconsistent holds but the problem is still there.
Consistent point of impact equals good groups, however, the opposite is not always true.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-07-2019 at 05:23 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I think it may be an assumption on your part that hand on the scope technique is a problem. I read about it elsewhere before I tried it, so I know that I’m not the only one who has expirenced its benifit.
In both cases, both mine and the one I read about, I had sighted in and worked up the load with free recoil technique. I was getting around 1” at 100, and a little over moa at 200.
I tried the hand on scope technique and got half that, but same POI. So, hand on scope does not mean it will change POI if you did not sight in with that. The other article I read concurs with my own findings. I would bet there are even more out there.
If I had not realized the benifits I would not have posted my findings like I did. But there are huge gains to be had by getting to carry a lightweight rifle up and down the mountains, yet having the shoot ability of a 10lb-12lb gun when taking a distant shot. Simply by resting your hand on the scope, or holding down the forend of your gun.
I would never advise someone to just take my word for it. Try it, see if it works for you, that’s what I did and it made me a believer.
Last edited by newton; 04-07-2019 at 05:53 PM. Reason: Autocorrect....
I just thought of something. Maybe the word “recoil” for some doesn’t mean what I am taliking about.
I am talking about actual recoil as calculated using math. I am not talking about felt recoil.
Here is a question that will help you understand.
Say I am shooting my gun, any gun, and my off hand is not touching the gun in any way. It is tucked up under my shooting arm.
Now, say I put my off hand somewhere on the gun - anywhere.
Did I reduce recoil by putting my off hand on the gun?
Last edited by newton; 04-07-2019 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Clarification
Never stated it was a problem. I did state it could be a Band-Aid fix. I use this method a lot. Depending on the situation it may or may not effect POI.
About 15 years ago I built a 6 1/4 pound total weight mountain rifle in 284 Winchester for a friends sheep hunt. We used a very light weight Krieger barrel. Due to stability and unpleasant recoil we both preferred to shoot it from the bench with the hand on the scope. This rifle showed a significate POI change at 300 yards when shot prone over a backpack verse sling verse from a bench with or without a hand on the scope. Groups didn't change POI did change significantly. He is also a NRA Highpower shooter so he is very familiar with proper sling usage for additional support. That is normal.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-07-2019 at 07:11 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Would that be the same math that claimed this?
Normally 55 gr bullets in 243 are around 4,000 FPS. Pushing a 15 grain heavier bullet with 40 grains more powder 2,700 FPS faster does not equivalate to 22LR recoil. If your math is concluding that your are not applying it properly.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-07-2019 at 07:09 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
You shouldn’t get hung up on the little stuff.
It’s the math that anyone can look up. Just google “recoil calculator” and pick the one you want to use. Input the data for your given firearm and view the calculated recoil. Just understand that true recoil is not the same as felt recoil.
That was the question. If you care to answer it.
This would be a good example. So how did you sight it in and the outcome? Did you use the same method as you would in the field? I guess what I am asking is what was your final sight in method?
This is why for close to perfect accuracy, lead sleds and Ranson Rests are usedRecoil plays a critical role in accuracy, even when you take flinching out of the equation. The more you can control recoil, specifically any movement other than straight rearward, will result in less potential fliers.
Regards
John
I mean have the same grip on the gun every shot. If you let it roll one shot them grip it a bit tighter the next to keep muzzle flip down you will never shoot a good group. If your shooting a heavy recoiling gun and get tired or its hurting our hand you have to push through it. because if that bullet is leaving the barrel at with the barrel at one level one shot and the next shot you tighten up and it leaves at a different level youll never shoot a good grip. They heavier the gun kicks the more its effected but ive seen it even in 32 mags. I had one of those birdshead ruger 32s and the grip was to small for my hand. I shot miserable groups with it until I learned its trick. Just hold it loosely and let it flip. No you cant do that with a 500 Linebaugh but you still have to be consistant.
I see. Thanks.
I was wondering if you were attributing what you said to the idea of "free recoil". But the way you describe it does not sound like the free recoil idea I think of when I hear those words.
If you want to work on recoil management then try a long barrel muzzle loader with 400+ gn bullets and large dose of powder. Bullet stays in the barrel a while
And, yes, I find that it is better when I do not try to 'manage' the recoil. Just a good, repeatable shooting position.
Posting Permissions
| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
| GC | Gas Check |
Reply With Quote