.32 S&W Long loads?

[Outpost75]

Senor 75, How much do you calculate I would need to back off from that 2.9 gr Green Dot load to start working on a starting load? I'm thinking about my RNHP at 105 and dropping back to about 2.4 or 2.5 to start... this for my little I-frame snubbie (post-War) and of course my K-32 and 327. Obviously the last of these will eat them safely, so I guess it becomes a test mule then I work from there. Does that sound like a reasonable plan of action?

Froggie

2.2 of Green Dot is a good .32 ACP load, so your 2.5 is fine as a start load in the .32 S&W Long. In a modern J-frame about 3 grains should top it out.

[Green Frog]

Many thanks, my friend. I had guesstimated that approximate range, but independent confirmation is reassuring. I’m hoping to do a lot more 32-ing now that the weather in CV has started to break for the better.

Best regards,
Froggie

[cold1]

Can you explain this please? Are you (or was Speer?) saying that these loads from #9 were above the 12 000 CUP standard and the #11 deleted them, or that they offered lowered charges in their suggestions, or what? Unfortunately my Speer manuals are packed away from a move, so I can't read them for context. I'd really like a good Green Dot load for a SWC around 100 gr+/- and it looked like that would be a good starting point. I've got a BUNCH of Green Dot for 20 ga shotgun loads.

Froggie

Speer #11 stated that when saami speced the 12000 cup max.pressure, they (saami) turned the 32swl into an anemic round.

Speer #9 does state that those loads should only be used in modern solid frame guns and that they should not be used in hinged frame revolvers. This manual was published in 1974, so I would surmise that between then and the publishing of #11 in 1984 saami capped max pressure at 12000 cup. I do believe saami did this just as they did with 45 LC and 4570, to give a max pressure that would be safe in all pistols including the old break top.

Neither manual publishes pressure numbers

[Green Frog]

I just found an old article by the late George Nonte. He suggested using 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4.5 grains of Unique behind the 95 grain Ideal 313445 SWC bullet. This sounds a bit rowdy to me, especially since he was talking about using this load in his 2" J-frame. Am I being a "Nervous Nelly" or was he a bit overenthusiastic? For reference, I routinely load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with this bullet.

Froggie

[Outpost75]

I just found an old article by the late George Nonte. He suggested using 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4.5 grains of Unique behind the 95 grain Ideal 313445 SWC bullet. This sounds a bit rowdy to me, especially since he was talking about using this load in his 2" J-frame. Am I being a "Nervous Nelly" or was he a bit overenthusiastic? For reference, I routinely load 2.5 grains of Bullseye with this bullet.

Froggie

3.5 grains is too hot for a .32 H&R mag!!!

[Larry Gibson]

I seldom disagree with Outpost75 (actually almost never!) but 3.5 gr of Bullseye is not "too hot for a .32 H&R mag" under a 95 gr cast bullet in Rugers or S&Ws. I have pressure tested 3.5 gr Bullseye under a 90 gr TL314-90-SWC and it runs at 17,000 psi +/-......the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W.

The SAAMI MAP psi (15,000 psi) for the 32 S&WL is in deference to the blow back semi auto target guns made for WC match loads. Note the 32 S&W SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W is the same as for the 38 SPL; 17,000 psi. Loading the 32 S&WL to the same psi as the 38 SPL which the J frame S&W was made for back in Nonte's day is not a problem.

I've not pressure tested the Bullseye or the Unique load in the 32 S&WLs ......yet. Guess I'm going to have to........

BTW; it was indeed between the publishing of Speer #9 manual and the #11 Manual that many loads were retested with modern methods and reduced adhere to SAAMI standards. Many such "reduced loads" are in current Speer manuals Adhering to SAAMI MAPs. Note also the 32 S&WL was dropped from the #10 Speer manual and picked up again in the #11 manual with only lead bullet loads for the 98 gr Swaged WC for use in the Walther GSP pistol (the blow back target pistol).

[cold1]

Thank you for the info Larry.

[Outpost75]

I seldom disagree with Outpost75 (actually almost never!) but 3.5 gr of Bullseye is not "too hot for a .32 H&R mag" under a 95 gr cast bullet in Rugers or S&Ws. I have pressure tested 3.5 gr Bullseye under a 90 gr TL314-90-SWC and it runs at 17,000 psi +/-......the SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W...

The SAAMI MAP psi (15,000 psi) for the 32 S&WL is in deference to the blow back semi auto target guns made for WC match loads. Note the 32 S&W SAAMI MAP for the 32 S&W is the same as for the 38 SPL; 17,000 psi. Loading the 32 S&WL to the same psi as the 38 SPL which the J frame S&W was made for back in Nonte's day is not a problem.

I've not pressure tested the Bullseye or the Unique load in the 32 S&WLs ......yet. Guess I'm going to have to........

Great info and thanks for clarification. My concern was more to seating depth in the H&R Mag case in the H&R revolvers and staying within SAAMI MAP. The Rugers can certainly take it. Mainly trying to urge caution for "the peanut gallery."

As always your comments on target and much appreciated.

[Larry Gibson]

Outpost75 brings up an excellent point; that of seating depth.

In recent tests attempting to determine which gives a higher pressure with a given load, cast or jacketed bullets of the same weight, in handgun cartridges I am finding the pressure produced is more related to seating depth than with PB, GC or jacketed bullets. A recent test with Green Dot in the 357 Magnum using the TL358-158 bullet a difference of .200" in seating depth resulted in over 10,000 psi increase.

FYI; the OAL is not the same as seating depth. As an example here is a photo of 4 bullets for the 44 magnum of 240 to 260 gr. Left to right they weight 240 gr, 260 gr 242 gr and 253 gr. Using 22 gr 2400 the left bullet is the lightest in weight yet gives the highest psi because it is seated the deepest. The "Keith" bullet on the right at 253 gr is seated the least in the case and gives the least psi. The actual weight of the bullet, within reason, appears to not be a factor.

Attachment 239580

[Green Frog]

...and then the use of hollow base bullets complicates the seating depth comparison. What matters most is the case volume with the bullet in place. It makes my head hurt to try calculating how much space is there for the actual powder burn to generate pressure, which is why I choose to wimp out and use known loads with known components wherever possible... in little cases especially a little change in the amount the bullet affects this volume can make major pressure changes. Be careful out there!

Froggie

[Larry Gibson]

Right on Froggie. Unless you are very experienced and certain of what the components should do in the firearm used the best way is to work up loads as suggested in manuals for many, many years and use reputable data.