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Thread: Looking for drill and tap levergun value advice...

  1. #1
    Boolit Master maxreloader's Avatar
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    Looking for drill and tap levergun value advice...

    Greetings! I have always wondered and now I need to know how much you all think a drilled and tapped receiver detracts from a levergun's value. I am looking at a 1 million serial range win 94' (1928 date of mfg) in 25-35. It is in maybe 75%-80% condion in my estimation... BUT it has been drilled and tapped. Normally I am not one to buy a collectible rifle (that I would shoot) that has been drilled and tapped so I ask all of my brethren what do think is a fair deduction of value/price for a normally nice levergun opposed to one that has been drilled and tapped? In other words If a levergun is worth $1000 not drilled and tapped, is it worth 10% less, 20% less, or is it not devalued at all? I have some sons that will inherit all I own when I am gone and I ask this question not for my profit but for their inheritance that I will enjoy until my day comes. I am not asking for the value of what I may purchase, just the difference (if any) that drilling and tapping causes in YOUR opinion. Thank you all for any input at all.
    Looking for Ideal molds 419181 (44 Evans Long) and 375167 (38-72)
    "Joined Dates" are deceiving if you factor-in "lurk" dates.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Well, I for one, would not do it at all to a rifle that old in the described 75-80% condition. It probably wouldn't be too much of a chore to sell it for enough to buy two newer specimens drilled and tapped from the factory.

    But, to specifically try and answer the value part of the question -- the value for resale after the drill and tap job would depend entirely on the buyer. Ideally, finding a buyer who just wanted an antique '94 to hunt with and shoot, there would be no devaluation because that's what he'd be looking for, just as that's what you want. For a collector, it would devalue the piece approximately $450, but collectors usually collect at conditions higher than 75-80%, always looking for the 99-100% gun.

    So, if a receiver sight is what you personally want, I'd say "go for it".

  3. #3
    Boolit Master maxreloader's Avatar
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    Der G, I am looking at purchasing this rifle for my use and to pass on. I would never drill and tap any collectible firearm. I do appreciate the $450 number because I will make an offer and any info on that end helps guide my decision.
    Looking for Ideal molds 419181 (44 Evans Long) and 375167 (38-72)
    "Joined Dates" are deceiving if you factor-in "lurk" dates.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    O.K. - very good. Very perceptive of you to ask the question in advance of purchase.

    I, myself, am an accumulator rather than a collector. I'm the guy that would buy your '94 if it was drilled and tapped if that was what I wanted to hunt or target shoot with, and rarely a collector of pristine arms, although I have a few nice ones.

    But, as it isn't d&t-ed at this time, I don't know how you're going to get the present owner down $450 before the fact, as if he's at all financially savvy he would hold out for the $1,000 from someone who values it "as-is". You could look at it (and there are other ways of looking at it) as $1,000 + $450 = $1,450 and with normal appreciation I can get that back 10 years from now and break even. He might say that he has a gun worth $1,000 and 10 years from now he'll sell it for $1,500 and make a $500 profit. The truth of the matter is that if you d&t it and hang onto if for 10 years you'll still have a $450 potential loss, and he'll just be keeping up with inflation and not really have a profit. The moral, values + or - stay relative to the economy.

    Such things are always kind of one of a kind deals, and the circumstances differ with each. 95% of any deal is ending up feeling happy about it all. It's kind of hard to put a price on happiness.

    Isn't that kind of what life is about, in general? I wish you the best in your decision, and deal if there is one.

    DG

  5. #5
    Boolit Man Cast_outlaw's Avatar
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    So the op stated in his post that it has been drilled and taped as an a accumulator as well it’s good to know that price drop for the firearms in question although I’d never drill and tap a lever gun imho scopes have no business on a lever gun but to each there own and best of luck with your purchase

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    If it's a clean job and from the time period of the gun, it's only a detractor when I'm bargaining for it! Far as I'm concerned it just adds to the story. I don't know value percentages but for me it would stop me.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Entirely dependent on seller/buyer combo.

    There is no such thing as a collectible in my book, I take no pride in owning objects just to look at. That being said, if I were to possess some antique firearm, I would promptly sell it to some rube who has a taste for wall hangers and safe queens.

    All this to say it just depends....

  8. #8
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    Another issue may be the caliber. A Savage 99 in 250 brings double what 300 brings locally. 25-35's are not common around here either so even D&T it would bring more. There are some that want shooters in the less common calibers.

    DEP

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    I do a lot of repairs for collectors and have filled more than a few holes. Most collectors would pass on a 94 if it has holes drilled in it unless it was a rare rifle. In this case the rifle is a shooter and if a collector really wanted that type of rifle for his collection he would buy it at a reduced price and spend money to have the holes filled.

  10. #10
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    Based on your description, I’d call that one a nice shooter grade gun in my mind. I’d personally try to find an unmolested sample, but if you had to have that particular one, I’d offer 20-25% less than market and go from there. Sad truth is, most people wouldn’t even notice or care. Collectors. True collectors not an amasser (like me) want near perfect 100% grade and 100% correct firearms. They’d turn up their nose at that specimen. I’d buy if the price is right.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Were none factory D/T at the factory, ever ?

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The holes can be repaired with the right reweld and finish if you want it back to original. otherwise fill them with a filler screw and they wont hurt the function of the gun.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    What is it drilled/tapped for? If for a side-mount scope that would detract from the value substantially. But d/t for a receiver sight? That could be (and often was) done at the factory back then because you could order the gun with receiver sight installed.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Reading back through this I can see where I had a senior moment between my first and second posts. Originally I did know that it was d&t and that effects the value, but then somehow decided that Mr. Maxreloader was going to buy it and the d&t it. But, I think my estimate of value and philosophy remain valid. Sorry. Being in one's late 70s gets to be less fun almost every day.

    I'd like to see a photo or two of your new rifle if the deal goes through.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Were none factory D/T at the factory, ever ?

    As Earl said, it depends upon where on the gun it was D/T'd.

    Winchester Model 1894/94's from SN 1 to about SN 1,350,000 were factory prepped (D&T'd) for a tang peepsight only.

    Winchester Model 94's from about SN 1.350,000 to about SN 1,790,000 had no tang or receiver peepsight prep.

    Winchester Model 94's from about SN 1,790,000 to about SN 5,300,00 (1983) had a receiver peepsight prep.

    Winchester Model 94AE's from about SN 5,300,00 to the end of New Haven production in 2006 had prep holes atop the front/rear of the receiver ( D&T'd for either a scope base or a receiver peepsight).

    The similar Winchester Model 64's have been observed both with and w/o the receiver peepsight prep, both before and after the SN 1,790,00 changeover.


    Additionally, any changes in value from the original issued condition are usually ignored by most sellers, and dis-approved by most buyers (who ascribe a "shooter" value to it.)



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    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    A nice shooter pre 64 m1894 win will go at least $750 in 25/35 anywhere I've been in last 10yrs. They are getting $350-$400 out of nice post 64 1894s in 30/30. I am in the market for 25/35s and 250/3000s. I've not seen any for less than $600 and they were beaters. A nice original 94W 25/35 or 99Sav 250 is $1000 to open.
    $450 may be an insult to sellers intelligence. I got a nice 99sav 250 that has been D&Ted for scope. In fact came with scope mounted. I paid $850 for it, was tagged at $1K. It's not a money maker at that price but I wanted it and I can break even on it anytime I decide I don't want it.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The question is why is an old gun worth more than a new gun........without the collector ,it would be worth its depreciated value ,very little..........collecting guns is a form of "one-up-manship",which inflates the percieved dollar price........If no one collected guns,and assessed guns purely on utility value,we would be back in the 1950s ,when old guns sold for the value of what use was left in them.....Im sure there are plenty of old Winchesters to go round,if only some collectors didnt have hundreds of them stashed away.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master maxreloader's Avatar
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    I appreciate all of the responses and have come to my offer for the rifle... its payday tomorrow so the timing is perfect. I read all the posts and also asked a couple FFL's that deal in win levers and after all of this I feel the offer I am going to make is for $750. Now, that being said there are 12 full factory boxes of ammo being thrown in the deal. If it happens I will deff post pics. I have a few 94's and this one will fit right in. It will be the first d & t lever that I own so if its a shooter it will move to the front of the rotation. THANK YOU all for your input!
    Looking for Ideal molds 419181 (44 Evans Long) and 375167 (38-72)
    "Joined Dates" are deceiving if you factor-in "lurk" dates.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Collector forums for a few brands can be found on the net. I learned a lot via the Savage collectors forum in www.24hourcampfire.com for example.

  20. #20
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    I saw a M64 the other day in .219 Zipper and some fool had side mounted a 3-9X Tasco scope on it and looked like he did it with a hand drill in his garage. The mount was cockeyed and not in line with the barrel!

    They were asking $2500 for it, and I laughed!

    I told them that they were at the top $ IF,,, the gun hadn't been buggered. It would have been a good candidate for Turnbull to work their magic on. But for more like $5-600.

    People who don't know what they have irritate me, almost as much as people who "think" they know what they are doing.

    Had a falling out with a Dentist the other day who botched an Implant Placement in MY mouth so bad I had to go find someone who actually knew how to fix it.

    The guy is 72 and refuses to wear magnifiers while he works. If you can't see, you can't do good work,,, period !

    If you don't know what you are doing, you can't have confidence in yourself, and if there's no confidence in yourself, You shouldn't be doing the work!

    Don't get me started. It's going to cost thousands to fix my mouth.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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