How is selling home PCed and reloaded ammo legal ???

[marek313]

I went to a gun show two weekends ago in PA and while walking around I found many vendors selling reloaded ammo. I saw that before with mostly FMJs but now I'm seeing more and more PCed bullets that were definitely home cast and PCed and then reloaded. Some of those looked ok but some were really crappy uneven PC, seated into brass so tight that you can see PC getting scraped while seating. Let me just say that i would never buy any of it but I was wondering how is it legal???
I didnt think selling reloaded ammo was legal unless you have FFL 03 license and I doubt most of these guys have it.

This of course leads to a question of who is responsible when this crappy ammo blows up a gun and hurts someone? Again I would never buy it or use it but I see a big legal hole here that might be problematic.

[RED BEAR]

I load all the ammo that goes in my guns period. Only other ammo i use is factory ammo in my carry gun

[Winger Ed.]

You need a FFL, I can't remember which one, maybe a class 6 to manufacture loaded ammo, and pay a excise tax on it.

After it's bought from the manufacturer, they can also resell it to people legally able to buy it.

As far as liability, that should be on the manufacturer,,,, in that situation-- good luck finding them.

[fatelk]

It's not legal. Well, yes and no. It's not legal to load and sell ammo without the requisite licensing and insurance, as a business. I don't think it's technically illegal for someone to sell leftover ammo from who-knows-where if it's just disposing of private property and not as a business.

I can't say that I've seen any unlicensed reloads being sold commercially at gun shows myself, in recent years. It's easy to find them being sold by average Joe selling off Grandpa's old stuff, or an estate haul. I agree with you though; I wouldn't do it, buy or sell. Too much risk/liability.

I have on occasion bought reloads at gun shows if they're cheap enough, but never to shoot. I'll pull them down for components. Just a couple weeks ago I bought a bag full of .300 H&H Mag ammo for cheap, obvious reloads. I've already got them pulled down. They were quite cheap and I can use the bullets. It turns out most of the brass was virgin, so it was a better deal than I expected.

There was another guy who had a table full of "Grandpa's old stuff": boxes and boxes full of ancient reloads, some with stickers on them from some long-forgotten commercial reloader, probably some local guy loading in his garage back in the 60's. Nothing was marked so I asked him about prices and he was wanting about 80% of new. He seemed offended when I pointed out that they were old reloads. "It's good ammo. See the sticker? Loaded by a professional!" Yeah, some guy in his garage 50 years ago with no insurance or recourse if it blows up your gun.

Poor quality PC reloads in zip-lock bags? I'd take them if they were free, because that's all they're worth. A rainy day project to pull them all down, use the primed brass, dump the bullets in the melting pot and the powder on the lawn. Selling them for anything other than components is foolish because of the liability, and buying them to shoot is foolish because of the risk.

[Walks]

The only reloaded ammo I've ever bought was from the OLD Long Beach Police Pistol Range. Next door to the old Long Beach Naval Hospital.
That was in the early/mid 1970's. I always filinched a few 38&45 cases before I dumped the empties in the bucket on the way out. Had to build up my own brass supply. I was a poor PO2/College student.

30yrs ago I prevented a buddy from buying a box of 500/.308 reloads at a Gun Show. The box was only marked: .7.62Nato-150grFMJ.
Asked the guy about why He didn't put his name&info on the box. Got a Very Negative & Foul answer.

Had another friend buy 1000rds, 45Auto reloads at a Gun Show. No-Name again. Blew up his gun.
Then he busted my impact bullet puller, breaking down over 900rds.

And I had my own gun blown up by someone else's reloads.
Learned 20 years ago to not loan out a Gun unless I could stand over the shooter and control the ammo going into my gun.

[L Erie Caster]

I believe if the show promoter has a license any one at the show can use his license. Other than that, I don’t think it is legal, but they will keep doing it until someone gets caught. Then the show promoter will be in legal trouble as well as the seller.
As I understand it the law states it can not be done for your livelihood. That confuses people who are not lawyers because they have a regular job and don’t realize any profit whatsoever adds to your livelihood.

[RogerDat]

There is a local commercial manufacturer of ammo with tables at local shows. Other than that only two places I see reloads offered are the estate sale vendors and this one older fellow that had small bags of mostly lead reloads. He was selling between 10 and 3 rounds per plastic bag for a pretty modest price. Many in "odd" calibers that someone might have just purchase a firearm chambered in. He also sold reloading and shooting equipment, brass, and the occasional supply of cast bullets also I suspect from estates sales.

I bought a few things from the older vendor, not the loaded ammo but did see others who bought it. I do think I did purchase a few rounds of something from him at one time or another but he did have a pretty solid reputation and it was as I recall a mild load in .303 British. He did at one time hook me up with Berdan de-priming tool and a box of primers for some WW2 ammo I wanted to reload. A more than fair price too I might add.

[jmort]

I believe that ITAR was eliminated for small scale non-export businesses.
So you would need at minimum, an 06 FFL

[EMC45]

FFL 06 and a bunch of insurance

[Traffer]

I am interested in this subject because (in my active imagination) someday I may be able to make competitive match grade 22lr ammo. It would be nice to have a way to put it into the hands of competition shooters without breaking any laws AND maybe even more importantly carry the necessary insurance and permits so people would have the confidence to actually shoot the stuff. (moderator, if you think this is a feeler thread, please delete it and don't kick me out)

[marek313]

I did see few legit vendors that were selling remanufactured ammo in plastic bags with ammo and vendor info on it but those were mostly FMJs and those looked fine to me (I still wouldnt shoot those). It was couple tables that had bunch of junk along with couple bags of PCed 9s and 45s that looked pretty bad but those were in ziplock bags with no info other then caliber and price marked with a sharpie. Those just looked bad from the get go. I'm assuming they will claim reselling someone elses reloads or real estate items as stated by others. At the same time those guys didnt look like the type worrying about liability and would def tell you off if you question their products so i didnt bother getting into an argument.

[Bazoo]

When I was younger I bought an MTM box for about 12 bucks at a local gun store. It had 50 reloaded 38 specials in it, I was told that I bought the box but was "given" the ammo with the purchase. The shop is still open and they don't sell reloads, guess he took it in with a gun and wanted to rid himself of it. Lost the box when my house burnt, but It was a neat vintage box in bright green.

[BigAlofPa.]

I had people ask me to sell them reloads. I declined. Told them im not perfect and i would not want to be responsible if they get injured because of a mistake.

[Bazoo]

I've had people want me to sell reloads too. I normally tell them you need a class 6 FFL to be legal. Sometimes I explain to them the cost per round is cheaper, but if you count your time, then it's cheaper to buy ammo.

[David2011]

I’ve offered to teach several people how to reload when they asked if I would reload for them. So far I’ve had one person and his sons take me up on the offer. Nobody else was willing to invest their time.

Jmort, I would love to see documentation that ITAR has been removed for non-export items. I haven’t been able to find anything on the subject.

[lar45]

You need the FFL to sell just bullets as well as loaded ammo.

[fredj338]

People that buy ammo from gun show vendors are like people that visit prostetutes. Ya really never know what you are going to come home with.

[RogerDat]

People that buy ammo from gun show vendors are like people that visit prostetutes. Ya really never know what you are going to come home with.

Yeah but if you bring some ammo back from the gun show it sure won't create the same level of "I'm going to kill you" rage in the dear wife. Good woman, righteously angry, force to not reckon with if you can possibly help it.

I have on a couple of occasions provided family with a box of rounds. I do those single stage, step at a time, 100% weigh every charge. When it is for me once I have the charge dialed in I check every 5th round or so and look in every case at the charge but don't have them all in a tray with a charge so I can compare looking for any that look higher or lower in the case compared to those around them. Have a couple of times made rounds that I gave away as "novelties" to friends. Those were powder coated in team colors. Or red, white, and blue. Made it clear I wasn't intending for them to be shot despite having loaded them with the same care I did my own rounds. Now come a zombie apocalypse of course you could use the rounds otherwise they were for showing not blowing.

I don't think there is a lot of money to be made loading ammo. Small firm can't compete with the economy of scale a company making a million rounds has. Odd bags of reloads from an estate sale? Pull down for sure.

[Traffer]

You need the FFL to sell just bullets as well as loaded ammo.

WHAT? Sorry I don't believe that.

[cat-mechanic]

As far as the government charging you for violating law for selling ammo that you made. it can and has happened. The Las Vegas shooter bought reloads from a guy in Mesa AZ. He is being charged with manufacturing without a license.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ed/1069243002/