148 gr DEWC cast loads

[Hi-Speed]

...any recommended loads using either W231 or Bullseye for 148 gr DEWC loads for S&W J frame 1 7/8 inch barrels? I have load data for the swaged HBWC versions but none for cast DEWC. Would like to achieve approx 675-700 FPS in the 1 7/8 barrels.

Appreciate any help

Thank you

[bmortell]

in my 38 snub notes I have 3gr titegroup 730fps. so take from that what you will, bulls and TG have pretty much the same data. and this is for the kind of DEWC where theres a crimp grove and a bit sticking out of the case. also I tried near pure lead first and it skidded rifling a bit so some hit sideways, I went to a few % antimony and waterdropped for better results.

[Hi-Speed]

Hodgdon on line reloading data shows 3.5-4.0 max using 231 with HBWC. I may start at 3.6 and 231 with the DEWC crimped in its crimping groove (the DEWC is typical of today’s commercially cast DEWC bullets - with crimp groove on each side). Any thoughts on this one?

[tazman]

All you need to consider is how much of the boolit is inside the case. Since the boolits weigh the same, if they are loaded to the same OAL, the amount of lead inside the case will be the same. If they are loaded to a longer OAL, there will be less pressure.
The shape of the base doesn't change the volume of lead inside the case.

[Outpost75]

With respect to loading soft-swaged, factory HBWCs, these are prone to blow the skirt if loaded too hot, and fired in .357 chambers, because with fast-burning powders like Bullseye, peak chamber pressure occurs about at the time the bullet is exiting the case. In the longer .357 chamber the hollow base is unsupported for about 1/8" as it transitions from the case mouth into the cylinder throats. In some situations the hollow base can be inflated to fill the .380" diameter of the front of the .357 chamber, lodging in the front chamber cone, while the front of the bullet continues forward into the cylinder throat. This causes the bullet to be stretched and elongated, resulting in a ductile fracture.

Federal, in the 1970s had a problem with wadcutters sent to Quantico, when new agents in preliminary instruction were transitioning from the Model 10-8 to the Model 13 (from .38 Special to .357). I witnessed multiple shooters scoring as many as 72 hits on a 60-shot tactical revolver course... Use of wadcutters for preliminary instruction went away shortly after. A mechanical engineering student at Penn State ran a finite element analysis of the failure mechanism and it was determined that the failure was caused by specific placement of the cannelure tool and its having a sharp corner which caused a stress riser. Changing the knurling tool to produce rounded grease grooves and changing their location fixed the problem.

In my own testing of factory HBWCs, only the Winchester and Remington component bullets will stand up to a full charge of 3.5 grains of Bullseye or 4 grains of 231 without blowing the skirt and degrading accuracy. Max. charge to maintain accuracy using Speer, Hornady, Zero or Precision-Delta HBWC bullets is 3 grains of Bullseye or 3.5 grains of 231.

[waco]

I am loading up some DEWC's right now. Mine are cast from an RCBS mold and weigh around 153gr.
I am loading them with 2.8gr of BE

[waco]

[JBinMN]

I use 2.9 gr. B.E. , Red Dot or Promo with 148gr. DEWC in 38Sp ( or 357M) for easy plinking loads. They are light enough in recoil that my missus can hold them with her hand issues, and I think, IIRC, although it has been a while since I chronied them, that they may be about in the range of velocity you are looking for using a snubnose.

I have seated them to about what waco just showed in his pic above, but I do not recall the exact OAL right now. I have seated them flush as well, which is what many consider the "normal" seat depth. I reckon as long as you do not seat too deeply you should be just fine with the pressures.

Below is a chart that shows different seating of a WC and how pressure is affected by OAL/seating depth, and the possibilities of overcharging/double charging... if you care to look at it. Just something to stay aware of for the future if it had not occurred to you already.



G'Luck! in whatever you decide to do!

[Hi-Speed]

Thank you everyone

[tsubaki]

For what it's worth, 3.0gr of Bullseye pushing 148gr DEWC's in my wife's S&W 642 and daughters S&W 442 is averaging 705fps.

[Bill*B]

Please do note post #8 by JBinMN. In my more ignorant youth, (when I though that all wadcutters were loaded flush with the case mouth), I did not notice that the COL of a "mild" target load listed in a respected manual indicated that the bullet was seated out by 0.150" or so. The result - a sprung cylinder yoke and a big repair bill. Fortunately I still have all my fingers.

[Texas by God]

I'm loading the Lyman 35891 WC- should it be seated flush or one band proud like Waco shows? Do I NEED Wadcutter brass or is normal brass ok? I've been loading .38 Special since the 1970s and have never used a wadcutter- hence my query.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[tazman]

I'm loading the Lyman 35891 WC- should it be seated flush or one band proud like Waco shows? Do I NEED Wadcutter brass or is normal brass ok? I've been loading .38 Special since the 1970s and have never used a wadcutter- hence my query.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

In general, no you don't. The wadcutter brass is designed for hollow based wadcutters which are longer than solid wadcutters.
The thing is, wadcutter brass is a bit more consistent than regular brass and gives slightly better groups even with solid wadcutters, particularly if you are seating them flush.
When seating with a ring exposed, you really can't tell much, if any, difference.

[Texas by God]

Thank you Tazman. One more question- do I need a special seating stem?

[JBinMN]

Thank you Tazman. One more question- do I need a special seating stem?

The one on the left is a RCBS one. Those are the type ends that I use for WCs & SWCs.

[tazman]

Thank you Tazman. One more question- do I need a special seating stem?

I have used wadcutter seating stems, SWC seating stems, and round nose seating stems. As long as the seating stem has an even ring around the outside(as in JBinMN's picture), it should work just fine.
Almost any seating stem will do the job.
I keep two seating dies on hand for my 38 special reloading. One(RCBS) is adjusted for wadcutters and is never moved. The other(LEE) is for round nose and SWC styles. It gets adjusted all the time since I load a number of different nose shapes.

[Texas by God]

Thank you, JB and Tazman.

[VMAX97]

I am starting to reload some DEWC and want to confirm options for seating depths. . I have some old wadcutter cases and I want to load the DEWC to the top of the cases. Looking for load data for Hodgdon Clays or Universal, I also have CPE-Pistol or Trail boss. Thanks.

[tazman]

Follow this link and go to the 38 special page for data for all the powders you mentioned. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol
The OAL for the data indicates it was loaded with a button nosed wadcutter seated flush with the case mouth. The data should work fine for you.