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Thread: Lead wire extrusion: out the side of the die?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Lead wire extrusion: out the side of the die?

    Every example image I've seen of extrusion dies has the billet going in the top and being forced through an opening at the bottom (with an angle leading into the opening, and a relief angle behind it). It would be substantially more convenient for me if I was to create a die where the opening was on the side instead.

    What sort of considerations need to be made for that (aside from it not really being machinable on the lathe)? Does this increase the pressure required for extrusion to occur?

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yes it does

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    rancher1913's Avatar
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    swag dies squirt the excess lead out the side.
    if you are ever being chased by a taxidermist, don't play dead

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by marky123 View Post
    Yes it does
    Is there a closed form equation for pressure required? I've seen for in-line dies F = A_0k ln(A_0/A_f), which doesn't really take die friction into account. I'm not really able to find any information about the math for extrusion beyond this, and I'm not sure how the equation would be modified for a die that doesn't have the opening in-line like that.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    From the side it would be a difficult to change wire diameter size.

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub smilin jack's Avatar
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    My hunting partner made a wire swager using his 20 ton shop press.
    He made a 30 pound piece of shaft stock into the swager die by center drilling the shaft similar to a pistol barrel. The bottom end of the shaft die is threaded with a bolt, that is also center drilled.
    He casts round ingots about 1" diameter and 6" long to put in the top of his extruder shaft, then puts the push rod and lowers the shop press ram.
    He screws in the correct size extruder die in the bottom and runs the pneumatic press down and lead wire comes out the bottom and coils into a 2 gallon bucket.
    We toured Nosler factory and a light went off in his head! He copied their setup, but on a smaller scale.
    He also made a cutter that cuts the lead wire to correct lengths for the needed cores. So far only 22RF made into 224 for AR type rifles. He's using a Corbin setup to make the slugs.
    30 cal is next on the wish list. Sorry, no pictures available. Next time his garage door is open, I'll ask to get some photos.
    smilin jack

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    alfloyd's Avatar
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    "My hunting partner made a wire swager using his 20 ton shop press."


    How does he get the ram to come back up out of the die after it gets to the bottom of the stroke?

    Lafaun
    Just staying at home and playing with multi-color boolits.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Push rod is what he is using for the 'punch' I suspect.
    I have a Blackhawk 25 ton press which I bought new back in the '70s for automotive work. Have been thinking about the same kind of extrusion set up myself but so far, no progress, due to time constraints...

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    You can also push the die thru the lead. It takes less pressure and I posted my rig a while back and I think the article that I based it on. If you want the output to go horizontal it would be easy to make a rig to turn it and then straighten it out using bearings (if needed). It might be enough to run it through a bent copper tube. More info from you might help provide more ideas. I think you are barking up the wrong tree in terms of side extrusion though. If you try it, do an easy proof of concept before busting something that you spend a lot of time and/or money on. Preheating the lead will lower the pressure if you get into extruding. I use a 20 ton HF press.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    "I use a 20 ton HF press."

    How do you get the ram back out of the die?

    Lafaun
    Just staying at home and playing with multi-color boolits.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator & Official Cast Boolits Sketch Artist


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    I been thinking about this as well I have a large arbor press and can use a reg press at my friends shop. Getting the punch back out of the die has been a concern. I have not tried anything but my thoughts have been a spring to push it back out but that will add to the load forming the wire. Another thought was flanges on the punch and the base where I could use threaded rod and push it out but one on each side would be a pain keeping them even and not binding. My last thought was a larger lets say pipe I could place around the die that caught the punch flip it over and press the punch back out. These are just kind of random thoughts I come up with when I go to bed since I have to be thinking of something to fall asleep.
    Would like to find out how others are dealing with this issue.
    Reloading to save money I am sure the saving is going to start soon

  12. #12
    Boolit Master


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    For my die I remove the orifice and tap on the end of the ram and it falls out!
    It is at the bottom of the stroke and a very thin piece of metal is left so there is little resistance.

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub smilin jack's Avatar
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    He has a cross bar of flat steel with a tapped hole on each end and uses a battery drill with a socket. The two bolts are tightened alternately to pull the push rod back out of the hole.
    smilin jack

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub smilin jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfloyd View Post
    "My hunting partner made a wire swager using his 20 ton shop press."


    How does he get the ram to come back up out of the die after it gets to the bottom of the stroke?

    Lafaun
    A flat bar over the extruder ram. It has two long bolts that work like a gear puller to lift it back up, using his air wrench on each bolt.
    smilin jack

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy

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    Does the bolt that is used as the die have some sort of taper leading up to the exit diameter? what is the wall thickness of the thick walled barrel? what is the clearance between the ram and the barrel dia.? It would have to be pretty tight or the lead would squeeze in between the bore and the ram causing the ram to be stuck pretty hard.

  16. #16
    I'm A Honcho!

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    In my humble opinion, extruding lead wire for making cores was too time consuming. I spent a lot of time doing that UNTIL I discovered the art of casting lead cores. I can make cast cores faster than extruding and cutting them. The cast versions form into weight perfect cores as easily as the extruded versions did. And, I can make them (cast cores) much much faster than cranking on a press to squeeze out lead wire, either straight on or to the side. My wire extruding and chopping gear sits in a storage closet, collecting dust. It was a waste of time, in my opinion.


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  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfloyd View Post
    "I use a 20 ton HF press."

    How do you get the ram back out of the die?

    Lafaun
    Sorry about the long delay but in my defence it was less than a year! The die set that I made uses a tube with an endcap sitting on one end as the outer body and the floating die is pushed through the other end. I use another tube as a pushrod and the lead wire exits the die, passes through the pushrod and goes out the bottom. The plate on the press also has a hole. When the ingot has been extruded, everything comes apart and there is a little lead left in the die. It is pretty simple if you see it. The friction of the lead going through the extruder is gone so all that is left is the force to extrude through the die. Just another way to skin a cat. I choose to cut the wire into about 24" lengths as it comes out. Others may want a coil and a larger ingot to start out.

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