44 special vs 45ACP

[bullseye67]

Good evening,

If I had to choose 1 only. My pick would be a S&W 5” in 45ACP. The one I have is very accurate with my standard 45ACP target load and very quick to reload with moon clips. I like the shorter case length and I can carry 4 belt clips and have 24 backup shots. I figure if I miss 30 times....

I also have a 5” S&W 44Mag...just doesn’t feel right shooting 44 Special..not saying I wouldn’t use it...just not my first choice.

I have actually re-though my “What do I really need” process. I used to think that a 38/357 would be the perfect **** carry revolver. I have now decided I will be walking around with a S&W 45ACP revolver and a bunch of moon clips loaded up. I have come to realize a 1/2” boolit before expansion is probably going to make a bigger hole coming out. I also find the recoil much easier to take with a 45ACP. More of a push and less of a slap, especially with a solid 800fps SWC like the H&G #68.

I am going to keep my comments, but was just wondering.....Doesn’t this sound just like the 308/30-06 debate??

Have an awesome week!!! Spring has sprung our tulips are up and tomorrow is a day off for me, so I am going to shoot !!!!




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[35 Whelen]

Both fired in revolvers with the same length barrel. Both suitably accurate and using as close to the same weight boolits/bullets as possible. Both using standard pressure loadings, no +P.

Notice, he did NOT say factory loadings, he said standard pressure loadings, i.e.- handloads at SAAMI pressures for each cartridge- .44 Special @ 15,000 psi and 45 ACP @ 19,000 psi

Using the revolvers gives each cartridge the ability to use identical bullet/boolit types and nose configurations so we won't be comparing apples and oranges.
I am thinking in terms of normal/nominal projectile weights, not heavy for caliber even though I know that is a possibility with this setup.

I have both and enjoy both, in fact In about a week I will take possession of a S&W 1917.

That said, I believe the .44 Special has the advantage for a few reasons.

IMHO, where terminal performance is concerned, there's not enough difference in the diameters of the two calibers in question to matter if they're used in the field or in a self defense situation. What hunting I've done with the .44 Special and 45 Colt has shown me that deer/hog size game are going to die no matter which caliber one chooses.

I've always felt that penetration is the most important thing when using handgun cartridges. The "standard" load 45 ACP 230 gr. bullet has a sectional density (S.D.)of .161. The "standard" load .44 Special uses a 246gr. bullet whose S.D. is .190. So realistically one could drop back to 210 gr. bullet in the .44 Special, which can be loaded to 1050 fps or more @ 15,000 psi, and still have about the same penetrative qualities as a 230 gr. 45 ACP. Or to keep things even, one could load a 230 gr. bullet to 1000 fps and acquire even better penetration. Heck it's no big deal to achieve 950 fps @ 15,000 psi with a 255 gr. cast bullet in the .44 Special. Most of my handgun game has been killed with such a load and I know first hand it works splendidly.

So really the only advantage the 45 ACP has at all over the .44 Special is a larger diameter bullet.

35W

[RED BEAR]

I admit i am a 44spec fan but i don't think there is a wit of difference between the two. They are so close ballistically that for all practical purposes there is no real difference. If you like one better than the other then thats the one you should use.

[StrawHat]

I have been sitting here thinking ...

44 Special vs 45 ACP ...

Both fired in revolvers with the same length barrel. Both suitably accurate and using as close to the same weight boolits/bullets as possible. Both using standard pressure loadings, no +P.
Using the revolvers gives each cartridge the ability to use identical bullet/boolit types and nose configurations so we won't be comparing apples and oranges.
I am thinking in terms of normal/nominal projectile weights, not heavy for caliber even though I know that is a possibility with this setup ...

Would one of them be significantly better for hunting/self defense than the other or are they so close as to be nearly indistinguishable?...

Identical revolvers, identical bullets at normal pressure ( or even +P) would give nearly identical results. Near enough that in flesh you could not tell the difference.

Even calculating the Taylor Knock Out number (bullet weight in grains X velocity X bullet diameter / 7000) would give results close enough to be considered the same.

Having said that, I have chosen to use the. 45 ACP and have a couple of them. Trying to consolidate the number of cartridges for which I reload.

Kevin

[M-Tecs]

Would one of them be significantly better for hunting/self defense than the other or are they so close as to be nearly indistinguishable?

For self defense full moon clips are a big advantage for double action 45 ACP revolvers. In single actions they are basically equal.

[JoeJames]

Sticking to standard SAAMI pressures, you give up a lot of terminal energy with factory 44 Special loads compared to factory 45 ACP loads. On paper, the 44 delivers much less stopping power than the 45 ACP.

Loading the 44 Special with the same 230-ish grain boolit is indeed loading it heavy for caliber, as most factory 44 Special loads do not exceed 200gr.

When you get to handloading the 44 Special, or buying specialty ammo such as Buffalo Bore or some of the other high performance defense ammo, then you can step out a bit beyond even the 45 ACP+P loads in energy and velocity.

Medium frame Rugers in 44 Special will easily handle 25,000psi pressures with 6 round cylinders, the frame itself is plenty strong enough for 36,000psi 44 magnum loads, although this would require a 5 shot cylinder to add thickness to cylinder walls.

In short the only thing really limits the 44 Special, is your pocketbook!

I have not actually bought factory 44 Specials in a year or more. I prefer more accuracy, but I have not seen any under 240 grain factory loads. Elmer Keith usally used between 240 and 255 grains IIRC. I always run 240 grain lead SWC's. Either .430" or .431" in diameter. Both my 44 Specials are Rugers; one a Blackhawk, and the other a GP100. Elmer Kieth was certainly kicking around after the 45 acp was developed, but his favorite was the 44 Special.

[gwpercle]

If all you can remember is that you liked the 44 Special....then go with the 44 Special...
You must of had a reason for liking it .
I prefer the 44 Special in revolver format .
Gary

[rking22]

Case capacity carries it for me. Personally I don’t care about factory loads so all reloading for me. The greater case capacity let’s the 44 special do the same job as the 45ACP with lower pressure. Less muzzle blast for the same performance. Now the 44 can use more slower powder to safely improve the performance, Skeeter load or some 2400, still staying in < 22,000psi realm with better sectional density bullets. The 44 special has more potential than the 45 in revolvers, and no stinking clips! In factory trim, no difference, but we are handloaders. Ultimate use and barrel length comes into play as well. Pick the one you like.

[tazman]

If all you can remember is that you liked the 44 Special....then go with the 44 Special...
You must of had a reason for liking it .
I prefer the 44 Special in revolver format .
Gary

After thinking about it some more, I remembered the reason I liked that cartridge. It was because of the revolver I used it in.
I had a 6 inch model 29 S&W that had been magnaported. It didn't help the magnums enough so I could shoot them comfortably, but it did make the 44 Specials very nice. That pistol was very accurate also.
I am not set up for 44 caliber at all at this point. I am well set up for 45ACP. I am giving some thought to picking up a Smith revolver in 45ACP. In that regard, I was thinking about differences between the N frame 44s and the N frame 45s. I remember the one and haven't experienced the other yet. Probably would be about the same depending on the individual gun.
I don't mind the moon clips. I have a 929 that uses them.
I think I need to find a target shooter nearby who has one I could try out.

[Forrest r]

I have yet to see a revolver chambered in 45acp keep up with the 44spl when it comes to bullets 250gr or heavier. Doesn't matter if it's 2 1/2", 4", 4 1/2", 6", 6 1/2" bbl.'s. Why level the playing field by using lighter bullets? It's like using 110gr/125gr in snubnosed 38spl's and then comparing them to the 9mm. Start using 160gr/170gr bullets in the 38spl & the 9mm struggles.

[knifemaker]

Forrest r, you are over looking the fact the original poster stated his wrists can not take the recoil of a heavy loaded 44 which rules out heavy 44 bullets loaded over the factory specs of a 44 special. 45 acp would be better suited for him and they are far cheaper then 44 special.

[Forrest r]

Forrest r, you are over looking the fact the original poster stated his wrists can not take the recoil of a heavy loaded 44 which rules out heavy 44 bullets loaded over the factory specs of a 44 special. 45 acp would be better suited for him and they are far cheaper then 44 special.

the OP stated:

I don't currently, own a 44 of any stripe. Experience has taught me that my wrists cannot handle the recoil of high pressure 44 loads(arthritis).
Also, for personal reasons, I will not load a low pressure cartridge beyond what it is designed to do no matter the gun I will be shooting it in.

People like Brian Pearce have done a lot of leg work on the 44spl. A link to such work & on page 37/standard pressure loads/15,500psi or less loads you can clearly see 950fps+ loads using 2 different firearms.
http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

I do find it interesting that you don't know standard pressure 44spl loads will easily push a 250gr cast bullet 950fps+ in 4" bbl'd 44spl's.

Personally I've done a little head to head testing with the 44spl vs 45acp. I understand that all firearms are not created equal but in my limited experiences with testing over chronographs I found:
My friend at a gunclub I belong to had a 2.5" bbl'd pitbull chambered in 45acp. I've carried/used 2.5" bbl'd bullgods for decades. Even with standard 44spl (15,500psi or less) the pitbull (45acp) couldn't keep up with the heavy bullets in the bulldog (44spl)
I owned a 624 with a 6.5" bbl for years, my brother has a 6.5" bbl'd 25-2. It would be a fare statement to say we did a lot of shooting/testing with those 2 revolvers. Oddly enough the 44spl/heavy bullet/standard 15,500psi or less loads were too much for that 25-2. Same thing happens when I pit my 4"bbl'd 29 against 1911 commanders, the heavy bullet/standard pressure wins.

Anyway thank you for correcting me knifemaker.
Perhaps you could share your head to head testing with standard pressure 44spl loads (15,500psi) and the bullets you've used in your testing of the 44spl vs 45acp.

[JoeJames]

I have found that with 240 grain lead swc's running at @ 890-900 fps in 44 Special there is just not enough recoil to be noticeable, and as a matter of fact I have let folks who were kind of reluctant to shoot a 44 Special due to assumed recoil, try a few rounds, and change their opinion. In my part of the Ozarks that big old boolit running at 900 fps is plenty enough to handle anything I might run across... feral hogs, deer, you name it.

[charlie b]

After thinking about it some more, I remembered the reason I liked that cartridge. It was because of the revolver I used it in.
I had a 6 inch model 29 S&W that had been magnaported. It didn't help the magnums enough so I could shoot them comfortably, but it did make the 44 Specials very nice. That pistol was very accurate also.
I am not set up for 44 caliber at all at this point. I am well set up for 45ACP. I am giving some thought to picking up a Smith revolver in 45ACP. In that regard, I was thinking about differences between the N frame 44s and the N frame 45s. I remember the one and haven't experienced the other yet. Probably would be about the same depending on the individual gun.
I don't mind the moon clips. I have a 929 that uses them.
I think I need to find a target shooter nearby who has one I could try out.

I think you have it down to the essentials. Difference is really, 'do you want to use moon clips or have the rimmed cartridge.' Performance wise they are basically the same for the same amount of recoil.

Economy wise, if you are already set up for .45 and not for .44 then stick with the .45. If the .45 revolver will cost more then consider difference in cost of setting up for reloading the .44.

Me? Depends. If defense only (or competition) then moon clips make a lot of sense. If plinking or field work then the option of partial reloads would move me toward the rimmed cartridge.

[Reverend Al]

If worse comes to worse do like I did ... own both! I have 2 S&W 624's in .44 Special and a S&W 625 in .45 ACP ...