44 special vs 45ACP

[26Charlie]

Have several of each caliber. Your initial premises make the argument a wash - the cartridges were designed for different purposes. If you want to shoot a 250 grain bullet, .44 is it. If you want a seventh shot, .45 auto is it. That is what I mean about your premIses.

[reddog81]

They are very close. IMO anything .44 Special can do .45 ACP can do slightly better if held to SAAMI pressures, however you’re basically splitting hairs. I prefer .45 ACP because the rounds can be used in revolvers or autoloaders, cheaper and easier to find brass, easier to buy bullets or molds, .45 will use slightly less powder due to the more efficient case.

[Dan Cash]

In my unscientific experience, the .44 Special has a better reach than the .45 ACP but the .45 ACP is a better killer of things weighing 40 to 180 lbs when both are using a truncated cone bullet in the 220-230 grain range with a .30 meplat. Just my experience.

[Drm50]

That is interesting. I only had one Ruger BH 45/45acp and found the opposite. I bought one when first out and the ACP didn't shoot as well as Colt. All cast and sized same. That would make me think it would be a case of the individual gun. We already know there is variations in production demensions in all manufactures. I bought only
one New Model Ruger BH and since don't buy Ruger SAs. I get them on trades but don't shoot them so I can't remark on them.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Not much difference on 'man' sized critters. In a fight, the 'full moon' clips of the 45 Auto in a revolver might be an advantage. A 240 grain SWC in either cartridge would work about the same. Wider wound channel vs more penetration? Do both revolvers give the same accuracy? Based on an N-frame S&W. Little gun vs big gun? Alloy vs steel?

[DougGuy]

Sticking to standard SAAMI pressures, you give up a lot of terminal energy with factory 44 Special loads compared to factory 45 ACP loads. On paper, the 44 delivers much less stopping power than the 45 ACP.

Loading the 44 Special with the same 230-ish grain boolit is indeed loading it heavy for caliber, as most factory 44 Special loads do not exceed 200gr.

When you get to handloading the 44 Special, or buying specialty ammo such as Buffalo Bore or some of the other high performance defense ammo, then you can step out a bit beyond even the 45 ACP+P loads in energy and velocity.

Medium frame Rugers in 44 Special will easily handle 25,000psi pressures with 6 round cylinders, the frame itself is plenty strong enough for 36,000psi 44 magnum loads, although this would require a 5 shot cylinder to add thickness to cylinder walls.

In short the only thing really limits the 44 Special, is your pocketbook!

[Texas by God]

I've always considered them to be close cousins with original loads. .43 246gr LRN @750fps vs. .45 230gr FMJ@ 800 fps. I like both but I only have .45 autos so I guess that's my preference for that power level. I like the .41 magnum but beyond that I'll use a carbine or rifle.

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[gnostic]

The moon clips are a royal PIA, that's why I no longer own a 1917 S&W. The 44 special drops into the cylinder like the rest of my revolvers. The clips require you load and unload them and the extractor groove in some brands of cases, are different from one brand to another. So, some cases fit tighter in the clip than others. The rimless case in a revolver is a bad idea, I'll never own another. Also, I doubt you'd get the velocity the loading manual suggests with the 45 ACP, because of the cylinder gap in a revolver...

[reddog81]

Sticking to standard SAAMI pressures, you give up a lot of terminal energy with factory 44 Special loads compared to factory 45 ACP loads. On paper, the 44 delivers much less stopping power than the 45 ACP.

Loading the 44 Special with the same 230-ish grain boolit is indeed loading it heavy for caliber, as most factory 44 Special loads do not exceed 200gr.

When you get to handloading the 44 Special, or buying specialty ammo such as Buffalo Bore or some of the other high performance defense ammo, then you can step out a bit beyond even the 45 ACP+P loads in energy and velocity.

Medium frame Rugers in 44 Special will easily handle 25,000psi pressures with 6 round cylinders, the frame itself is plenty strong enough for 36,000psi 44 magnum loads, although this would require a 5 shot cylinder to add thickness to cylinder walls.

In short the only thing really limits the 44 Special, is your pocketbook!

But you can load 45 ACP to those same levels in any of the guns you are referencing and do it for cheaper. Looking at 45 ACP and 44 Special Buffalo Bore offerings shows overlap of the velocities for similar weight bullets. The barrel length of the gun has more effect on velocity than the difference between the 2 calibers.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think DougGuy comes pretty close to hitting the nail on the head in his post (#26).

In FACTORY loadings, with bullets of similar weights, there's probably not a huge difference in performance (although the platforms are very different).

As for diameter, we're not talking big differences there either, .429" vs .451" or 0.022" total diameter.

As I've said repeatedly, the 44 Special (loaded within SAAMI restrictions) is overly restricted by ridiculously low SAAMI standards. If you could push a 240 grain, LSWCHP 44 bullet with the same psi that you can push a 230 grain JHP 45 bullet (21,000 psi), it would be a different game. Due to the low pressure limit for 44 Special, I think the 45 ACP has an edge - but only when SAAMI limits are observed and the bullet weights are similar.

The 15,500 psi SAAMI limit for 44 Special is very close the 15,000 psi limit set for the 45 Auto Rim but significantly below the 21,000 psi limit for 45 ACP.

[RED BEAR]

i will agree the 44spec replaced the 44 russian which was black powder . But the 44 spec developed in 1907 was developed as a smokeless powder load. While there may have been some company that loaded it with black powder that was never the intention. It was and has always been a smokeless round. Now i have seen some references that state it was a lenghtened 44r russian to enable it to hold 3 more grains of black powder but nothing to say it was actually loaded with it. Knowing that cartridges are not developed over night it may have been the intention to load black powder originaly but the final product that went into production was a smokeless round.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The .44 Special is the most versatile cartridge in catagory. With modern guns the .44 Special can be loaded very light, and can be cranked up enough to knock a pterodactyl out of the sky.

It’s at distant the .44 Special shows it’s superiorty, I own several .44 Special and .45 Colt revolvers which I shoot .45 Schofield in. The .44 Special hits downrange more reliably than the .45 Colt and .45 Schofield. At 25 yards both rounds perform almost equally.

I did shoot a man at 80 yards with a .45 1911, he went down like a sack of potatoes.

[Loudenboomer]

The 45 acp and 44 spl. are so similar. I guess I'd be asking questions like what platform do you like the best and do you want to share molds and or dies with a current caliber. I have .44 spls. in the Flat top Ruger and a 3 inch bull dog. My .45 acps are on the 1911 platform. IMHO this is the correct places for these calibers. If you did care to warm things up a hot .44 spl. moves ahead of the +P 45 acp in short order. A hot .45 Colt does the same to the 44 spl. but I don't think this was the direction of the orig. post.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Loudenboomer: Please explain how you have accomplished the same thing with a hot .45 Colt as with a .44 Special.

[Bigslug]

For what it's worth, I just went over to the HKS Speedloader website and checked their product numbers.

Model 25M will allow you to speedload Auto Rim brass into the 1917/25/625 pattern revolvers.

If, as you say, you don't have a .44, but are already in possession of various .45 molds, this might simplify your existence. Keith's 452423 for the Auto Rim is of course, an ugly root beer barrel of bad news. There's also the NOE/Ranch Dog TL452-234RF that in the early stages of the group buy/design phase, someone had the BRILLIANT idea of converting the front TL groove to a crimper so the bullet would be warm and fuzzy in both autoloaders and sixguns. The RG versions give you both cup point and full hollowpoint pins, so there is a lot of versatility with that one.

[WehrmannsGeweher]

Elmer Keith never bothered with the 45 ACP ------ just sayin.

[TNsailorman]

Elmer Keith was a single action man. He did on occasion shoot the 1911 and proved to Army brass that it was a longer range weapon than any of them believed. But he was an exceptional shooter at distance.

[WehrmannsGeweher]

Actually he was a DA and SA man. No 45 ACP/AutoRim load can come close to a stoked 44 Spec or 45 Colt (not the 45 "long" Colt, there is only ONE 45 Colt.)

I love my 1911 but would never chose it for serious work over a properly loaded 44 Spec or 45 Colt, although my 10mm GRAND comes close.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I couldn’t get my cast 452423 to chamber in any of my 3 Colt’s 1911’s no matter how I seated it. I would feel confident with the 452423 in defensive shooting distances out of a revolver.

[onelight]

Have several of each caliber. Your initial premises make the argument a wash - the cartridges were designed for different purposes. If you want to shoot a 250 grain bullet, .44 is it. If you want a seventh shot, .45 auto is it. That is what I mean about your premIses.

You can get revolvers for both from concealed cary size to field target size.