Don’t get me wrong, use what you like and if it gives you problems either fix, replace or upgrade but while jm can cycle his lever for 100 rds in 4 minutes it’s comparing apples to oranges if he doesn’t include the prep time to fill the case [pre primed cases?] and bullet hoppers. Btw, I prime on my Dillon and Lyman turrets. IMO
I used the early version of the Pro 1000 as my very first progressive. Loaded a ton of .45acp, almost all of them went bang. If a person has a small budget Lee will get you in the reloading business cheap. If you have more bucks to spend, sure get a bigger, better machine. I've helped a few guys get their Pro 1000's running and most still use them.
Never understood this kind of analysis, including prep time?Originally Posted by Baltimoreed
When you shoot a timed stage in any competition do they add in the time you took to load your magazines?
How's that any different,
Last edited by Kenstone; 03-22-2019 at 09:42 PM.
I never timed myself loading. I enjoy loading. The time flys by yes. But i never pay attention to when i start and stop.
One round at a time.
Member of the NRA,GOA and FAOC. Gun clubs Zerby rod and gun club. Keystone Fish and Game Association.
Big dif. If you’re going to brag on how fast you can assemble loaded rounds on your progressive by comparing your machine against another manufacturer’s that isn’t a progressive it’s going to be apples to oranges if you don’t factor in the prep time on your progressive. That prep time is a part of the nonprogressive press’ normal operation. Not saying that you won’t be faster as autofeed is always going to be faster than manual feed. Until a jam. The other thing is case priming, do you prime on your progressive or off?
GONRA sez - Reloading Speed Guys are nuts. KABOOM waiting to happen!
Amen. Seen too many guys in my cas club buying locally remanufactured ammo and having squib issues. Our RO’s have been on the ball and no other worse problems but the potential is there. I trust my equipment but I still go slow enough to ‘look’ at what’s going on on the turret.
Well I cannot say I bolted it down and loaded a million rounds w/o a single failure but I can say I took a used one from ebay out of the box bolted it down and started loading that same day.Paid less than $100.00 for the entire setup with the only things missing were the round cover for the primers and the 4 tubes for the case feeder.
I took the time and did some serious research on the problem issues and the solutions to those problems. I then implemented them before and during the setup of this press which may account for why I was able to load on this press as it was designed to be used, including on press priming, from the very beginning. I number one thing I see as a fault that most people have is with the bench and how the press is mounted. The bench needs to be absolutely rock solid with no rocking, no rolling and no flexing. I watch videos today and see these presses jerking all over the place and then the operator complains it doesn't work. It's no wonder. Next are the guys that are pulling on the handles like they are at the nickel slots on a drunk Saturday Night.
I find the Lee Pro1000 as one of the simplest designs and set up of all progressives out there. There is only one adjustment point on this press other than the dies. On the last run I have done on this press I have kept track in my log book and produced 3400 rounds w/o a fault and that was with one caliber change from 9mm to 45acp. I have yet to have a primer detonate on this press.
Now I have been a production machine mechanic for a major portion of my life and grew up on farm machinery before that so maybe I do have more skill then most but there is nothing about this press that the average cannot master. There is nothing extraordinary about this press. It's a simple machine with simple requirements!
If the speed the ammunition was loaded had anything to do with how safe it was, factory ammunition would always blow up firearms.
If the best they could do was 1000 rounds an hour factory ammunition would cost a lot more than it does.
One can load crappy ammunition at any speed and just because you do something slowly doesn’t make it any better.
Any brand new press you have to fix before it will work properly isn't made right to start with. If you have to prime off the press you are losing the speed advantage the progressive press was intended to provide.
I have owned both the Lee Loadmaster and the Lee Pro 1000. After 6 months of tinkering, reading about corrective measures, and buying new parts, the longest run I had without a breakdown was 450 rounds. I ran out of patience with them at that point.
I spent all that time because I like the Lee products I used previously and use now and wanted to give them a good, honest chance. No go.
I may, at some point, try a Dillon but for now, my Lee Classic Cast Turret fulfills my needs. It has 4 stations which fit my style of loading and I can prime on the press without problems. I can't begin to say how many 10s of thousand of rounds I have loaded on this press. I load 5 different handgun cartridges and 4(currently) different rifle cartridges on it. It just works.
Caliber changes are easy since I leave the turrets set up.
I am almost to the place that I need more capacity for some of the pistol cartridges but just can't quite justify the expense of a Dillon yet.
Tazman you may be one of those that would benefit from the New Auto Breech Lock Pro press. I have one and find it to be a hybrid of the Lee Turret press and the Lee Pro1000. You should be able to double your output over the turret just because of the fact tat a finished round comes out with each stoke of the handle. And being a Turret user it should be a pretty seamless transition while using the Safety Prime, The press can be bought for about $130.00 when you add in a shell plate. Everything else should migrate pretty easily. If you were closer by I would invite you over to try mine!
I am watching that press with interest. It has features that I am used to already such as the safety prime. The price point is good too. I am waiting a bit to see how well users feel about it after some time with it.
I have in laws near there. I'll send a PM.
Last edited by tazman; 03-22-2019 at 09:06 PM.
It sounds like we may have similar likes in reloading .
You may like the auto breech lock pro it has much of the simplicity of the LCT in a progressive with the ability just like the LCT to manually index and shares the same primer feed.
It does work well with or without the case feeder. Just say to yourself bullet case primer,bullet case primer, it took me a few hundred rounds to remember all three
look like several have similar. Responses to your post
Well you can buy 4 loadmasters for the price of 1 hornsby ammo factory.
They main issue with the load master is the priming feature.
It will flip primers. Crush and explode primers.
It is not reliable system without a lot of tinkering
Now if you prime off the press. It can be very good press.
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The priming system has always been the weak link for the Lee progressive presses, especially so with small primers. Once you train yourself to pause in mid stroke, jiggle the slide and watch the primers advance you can make good ammo. You just can’t pull the handle as fast as possible and expect good results.
After 20+ years of making perfectly good pistol ammo with a Lee Pro1000 I decided to get a Hornady LnL progressive when I got heavily into 300 Blackout. Wow, what a difference! It’s so very nice to not have to worry about having a primer delivered right side up every time.
As far as Lee dies go, I would just as soon have them as most brands and much prefer them to Hornady. The zip spindle has been nothing but trouble IMO.
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Armed people don't march into gas chambers.
kmw1954
Half the world is below average and average isn't all that high. I'm betting a production machine mechanic has an ability to figure out mechanical problems in the 90%+ area relative to the average joe. I have been a mechanic, machinist, welder for 50+ years and picked up three of the Pro 1000s to see what all the fuss was about, Two were used and one new. I figured out the problems of the pro 1000 and then came up with fixes for them. They all three work ok now but it's not hard to see why so many folks have trouble with them. I would never recommend a pro 1000 to someone not having mechanical skills and patience. I find the Dillon 550 to be a simpler design and it feeds primers well right down to the last primer. I'm not a Lee basher and I have quite a bit of Lee stuff but I don't consider the pro 1000 to be one his better designs. I would like to try a Lee loadmaster some day but even the ones folks are having problems with aren't cheap and I don't have a need for another progressive.
If you can get consistent production with your Lee press there is no reason to not use it. If it constantly aggravates you then you have choices. You can live wit it the way it is, tinker with it until it runs or use something different.
I agree with JMorris. Good ammunition can be produced quickly and poor ammunition can be made one rounds at a time. I do not apply the same standards of accuracy to a finished handgun round as I do to a hunting or target rifle round. For handguns 3" to 4" groups at 50 yards is adequate for USPSA competition. I want groups half that size for my Contender. I do apply the same standards of production accuracy. Seating depth and powder charges must be consistent whether .38 special powder puff loads or speed demon .22-250.
There is no inherent danger in loading a lot of rounds quickly. I have caught myself making more errors when loading slowly and getting distracted than I ever have banging out .40 S&W on my Dillon 650. I usually load 400 rounds at a time when loading .40, enough for 2 matches and some left over or a match and a practice session. That takes 20 minutes once I start. I can load .40 faster than any of the calibers I load on the 650.
Ammunition loading cyclic rates are no different from machine gun cyclic rates. They don't include loading and changing magazines. Am M-16 will cycle at 700-900 rounds/minute but that comes to a screeching halt when the bolt locks back after 30 rounds.
Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris
I don’t understand the apples to oranges part but you do have a good point on load rate vs production. The “zero” in average speed puts a significant dent in production despite a high load rate.Don’t get me wrong, use what you like and if it gives you problems either fix, replace or upgrade but while jm can cycle his lever for 100 rds in 4 minutes it’s comparing apples to oranges if he doesn’t include the prep time to fill the case [pre primed cases?] and bullet hoppers. Btw, I prime on my Dillon and Lyman turrets. IMO
“Pre filled” would mean multiple passes and that’s not very progressive or a waste of time.
100 rounds in 4 minutes would be 1500/hr but as you note, one must stop to replenish supplies and that takes additional time.
Depending on what method one uses and what press that can get you back to 1000/hr or even worse.
Last edited by jmorris; 03-22-2019 at 11:09 PM.
The topping off above and then the run
Gets you over 1100/hr even with the Frankford filler, with the Dillon tube filler, you are already 30 rounds in before the tube is filled, very little “zero” time.
That said, with the Loadmaster, your not loading a tube anyway...aka even faster.
I agree with much of what you state but at the same time disagree with much in your other post. The Pro1000 has it's issues but it also isn't quite as horrible as you made it out to be. Just like many things in life some people should never be allowed to do some certain things ever. Which yes some people should never go near a progressive press just as some should never go near a reloading bench either. Yes the Pro1000 isn't for everyone, those that load on it while doing their priming off the press all do well with this press and I know of tons of people doing it this way.
It takes a certain understanding of the workings on the primer system/design on the Pro1000 and the biggest thing being that the primer is placed on an open pin and just balanced there. There is no cup to hold it in place, thereby any shaking or jostling of the press knocks the primer out of position and causes problems.
When I make a comparison of this press I cite the Dillon SDB as I find it the closest match in form and function. They both are basically 3 die presses with the Dillon having an extra position for the powder dispenser. They are also about the same physical size and used for pistol cartridges. The two largest differences between the two being the way priming is performed and the dies. For me this is the trade off, the Dillon has a easier to use prime and the Lee doesn't use Proprietary dies, cheap common dies can be bought and used. But both presses are pretty simple in design and function and can crank out a ton of ammunition in a sort amount of time. The Dillon 550 is in a completely separate class all by it self just as the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro is.
In all honesty I find the Lee LoadMaster as one of the most confusing designs there is in a progressive press. Why should it take 2 stations to prime a case?
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