question about loading speed between Lee Classsic Turret and Dillon Square Deal

[asmith80]

I'm starting to get more into competition shooting. Only doing once a month competitions but I'd like to get some more practice in between. I'm taking a look at my reloading situation to see if it can keep up with my ammo needs.

Right now I've got a Lee Classic Turret press with some Inline Fabrication upgrades. Specifically the auto shell ejector finger and indexing rod. I can load probably around 150 rounds an hour with this setup if I'm taking my time.

I'm looking at getting the Square Deal just to load 9mm for practice. Budget is a little tight, so the Square Deal is about at the edge of what I can afford. Am I going to get a significant (at least 200/hour) increase over what I've already got?

[dragon813gt]

Yes, you will see a significant increase w/ a SDB. Even putting along on a 550 will increase your production rate. I use a LCT a lot. But if I want to crank out a lot of ammo I use the 550.

Just a reminder that the SDB uses proprietary dies. And that the window to work in is small. Guys w/ larger hands can have issues w/ it. For loading lots of pistol ammo it’s a great press if you don’t mind the die issue.

[Stan_TN]

I know a lot of Dillon folks are going to get steamed about this one. Long story short, I purchased a used SQDB and then after a lot of frustration bought a brand new one. Good little press....but I hated it!!! It is tiny and I am BIG. Worked ok, but I didn't like it at all. What I would do - and this is just from my experience. I would purchase a used Lee Load Master and go from there. It is fast enough, but need to prime off press to avoid frustration. The SQDB is a good little unit, but I did not like it at all. Pretty complex little unit, lots of moving parts in my opinion and the dies, etc are completely and only used for the SDB. This is a downfall to me given inexpensive Lee dies and other "common" sized type of accessories available.

[asmith80]

Thanks for the reply. I'm not too concerned with the proprietary die issue. In fact, one of the things I liked about the deal is that it comes with everything already set up, and there's not much I would have to do to get it running.

[dragon813gt]

If you’re looking to speed up production than any step performed off press doesn’t help. If you don’t mind tinkering to get it to run than a Lee progressive is an option. If you want it to run out of the box and keep running for years on end then buy a Dillon.

The cost difference is negligible and the 550 is a versatile press that’s more capable than a SDB. But you’re going to give up some speed w/ no auto advance. You will find more used accessories for a 550 than a SDB which keeps costs down.

[jmorris]

I can load 100 rounds on my square deals in 9:30. 200-300 an hour would be a very relaxed pace with a break or two as well.

It will be a night and day difference between your turret press for sure. The next big step after that is a bullet and case fed 650, that will load 100 rounds in 4 minutes and it’s less work than loading 100 in 10 minutes on an SD.

[onelight]

I would think any progressive press that is running RIGHT should double or triple your turret loading at the same pace.
Personally I would find a 550 more versatile in the long run.
But I bough the new breech lock pro cause I did not like fighting the primer problems on the other progressives I have had I tend to not use it for months at a time so with my poor memory I had to figure it all out again every time , for me the simpler the better.

[Three44s]

I am a LNL guy as well as a Lee Classic turret guy but I think you ought to just dive all the way in and go for the 650 Dillon and be done with it.

Three44s

[dverna]

I have had two SD presses. They both worked well. If you only want to load one caliber in quantity on a limited budget, you will be good.

As you already have a turret press, getting a 550 may not be your best option unless you have another caliber you want to load in quantity. The 550 will be a tad slower, more versatile, and more expensive.

BTW, I sold the SD presses only because I moved to a 650 and then to a 1050.

I suggest getting extra primer tubes. Loading primer tubes is the biggest interruption for me. I have 20 and load them up before I start a long session.

[rbuck351]

Save up for a 550. 400 rounds per hr is an easy pace and that is without boolit or case feeder. 500+ per hr can be done but you need extra primer tubes already filled. Until you get a good method figured out and well practiced, it would be wise to keep the slower pace.

[asmith80]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I had thought about the Loadmaster, but it seems like you have to fiddle with it to get it running well. Also it looks huge, and I've got a limited amount of bench space.

The 550 was a really close contender, for the reasons some of you stated above. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that aside from 9mm, I don't really shoot huge volumes of any other caliber I load for, so if I got a 550, it'd only be used for one caliber anyway. I like that the SD comes pre-set and ready to go, and has the auto-index

I've got 3 small kids, so if I can get an hour a week to load, I'm lucky. Getting 100 rounds in that hour for any of the other calibers I load for is fine, because they may sit for a few months before I shoot them. If I'm going to be practicing more with 9mm, I'm going to need something that helps me maximize my hour and let's me build up a little surplus of ammo.

[onelight]

Any progressive running right will give you a loaded each pull of the lever with your turret you feed bullets and cases one at a time so a progressive even. With no case or bullet feeder should give you at least 21/2 times the production rate , for me a angziety climbs = with my production rate. ... but it is worth it.

[Petrol & Powder]

asmith80 - I read your posts, in particular #11.

It sounds like you want to be able to crank out rounds when the opportunity to reload presents itself. I get it, time is valuable.

While the SDB is a little less money up front than a 550 and the SDB has auto indexing- the SDB has some limitations.

The auto index feature doesn't contribute as much speed as people think. I've been using a 550 for 20+ years and I would dare say that I can run a 550 as fast as a SDB. Manual indexing is not an impediment.

The SDB uses proprietary dies and that is a huge factor. I know you're only thinking about loading one handgun caliber at this time but it never remains just one caliber ! The 550 uses standard dies and is a bit larger which makes it easier to run if you have big fingers & hands.

A 550 and a supply of about 4 primer pick-up tubes will allow you to load 300-400 rounds per hour. YES, the primer tubes must be pre-loaded to accomplish that rate but that task can been done ahead of time (like when watching TV and kids). Even with only 2 pre-loaded tubes and the machine loaded with primers; 300 rounds in an hour is easy.

If the initial cost and the lack of auto-index are the issues that are pushing you away from a 550; I would suggest you save up just a little more money and go with the 550. The money is a one time expense (and not a huge difference) and the lack auto-index isn't that big of a deal.

[georgerkahn]

I used to get a chuckle watching television cooking shows where a dozen or more different ingredients had already been cut, measured and be all ready to be added as the recipe was being shown put together. Similarly, to me -- the time (assuming these will all contribute to making the resultant target pattern smaller) to trim all brass to exact length; clean primer pockets; deburr the flash holes; sort cases by lot.... this with brass with time to s.s. pin tumble... What *I've* noted is the press time is not really -- for me -- that significant. Advertisers may claim a press will crank out, say, 500 rounds in an hour -- BUT, I do not think the time to fill the auto primer tubes five times; sort/do all the brass prep mentioned; putting lub on cases (assuming no carbide die on pistol brass) -- ALL MOST significant has been included!
For *me*, again, the time AT the press is but ONE of many operations... just something to think about..
(I've "threatened myself" several times, through the years, to simply decap a lot, put in a new primer, drop in some measured powder, and seat the bullet; VERSUS doing another lot with pin tumbled measured brass, etc., etc., etc. etc. -- to see IF there'll be a measurable difference at the target However, in the competitive shooting game, I'd not take the chance omitting steps which indeed, will greatly speed up the loading process. )
geo

[asmith80]

Petrol, you make a pretty good case for the 550.

I'm reading that the Dillon powder through expander may not expand enough for cast. Anybody run into this? And is there a solution?

Also, does Dillon have a powder through expander for rifle calibers?
Maybe the 550 would be the way to go

[kmw1954]

asmith80 At first I was getting the impression that maybe you already had a line on a used Dillon SDB and now I'm thinking otherwise.

You have a good press already in the Lee Turret, it is very versatile and well built. Though you are correct in thinking it is limited in speed when compared to a progressive.

My thought comparison is that the Dillon SDB and the Lee Pro1000 are on equal footing as far as speed and the over-all use. The Dillon 550 is in a class all by its self same as the new Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. Right now you state you are primarily interested in loading just 9mm in large quantities and with that any one of these presses can be set up and run as a dedicated press with an option to expand if/when you need to.

From watching the used market pretty closely I can tell you a used Complete Dillon SBD is going to be in the $350.00 range for a decent one. A complete Lee Pro1000 can be found on ebay generally in the $100.00 - $200.00 range depending on how much extras they are throwing in. Now when I say complete I mean in the same complete condition as new with nothing missing. The Dillon 550 is going to be in the $400.00 - 500.00 range and again depending on what comes with it.

Which brings me to the new Lee Breech Lock Pro. This press new runs about $115.00 with another $20.00 for a shell plate, then another $30.00 for the Safety Prime if you don't already have one on your turret press. Then everything from your Lee Turret press can be migrated to the Breech Lock Pro. I have one of these presses and I can tell you that it can easily produce 250 rounds per hour w/o busting your butt.

[JBinMN]

I'm starting to get more into competition shooting. Only doing once a month competitions but I'd like to get some more practice in between. I'm taking a look at my reloading situation to see if it can keep up with my ammo needs.

Right now I've got a Lee Classic Turret press with some Inline Fabrication upgrades. Specifically the auto shell ejector finger and indexing rod. I can load probably around 150 rounds an hour with this setup if I'm taking my time.

I'm looking at getting the Square Deal just to load 9mm for practice. Budget is a little tight, so the Square Deal is about at the edge of what I can afford. Am I going to get a significant (at least 200/hour) increase over what I've already got?

A little sidetrack to the topic, but I'm pretty impressed with the bolded above.

I average 60+-75 per hour usually, but when I get to rocking & rollin and things going smoothly with no interuptions, I can run almost to 100 a hour on the basic 4 hole LCT. ( I have had it over a year now, so it is not that it is new to me.)That is with everything setup & ready to go in front of me, Press to my right as I am right handed, primers in the primer dispenser, scale & trickler in front of me at bent arms distance, powder measure to my left & loaded & calibrated to throw what I want, boolits & cases directly in front of me as well as a calipers & case gauge. I must add that I check powder weight & case gauge "every load & round" before it goes into the box as completed, as well as check OAL about every 5-10 rounds, so that can eat up a little time.

I am not sure of what the auto shell ejector finger & indexing rod could do to the press to make it run faster, or whatever other improvements related to speed you have done, but if sometime, If you can take the time to tell me, please, or send maybe me some pics of what you are doing & your press setup, that basically could double my current output 60-75/100 RPM to your 150 RPM "taking your time", I would appreciate it. Thanks!


G'Luck! on what ya decide to do for a new press!

I used to get a chuckle watching television cooking shows where a dozen or more different ingredients had already been cut, measured and be all ready to be added as the recipe was being shown put together. Similarly, to me -- the time (assuming these will all contribute to making the resultant target pattern smaller) to trim all brass to exact length; clean primer pockets; deburr the flash holes; sort cases by lot.... this with brass with time to s.s. pin tumble... What *I've* noted is the press time is not really -- for me -- that significant. Advertisers may claim a press will crank out, say, 500 rounds in an hour -- BUT, I do not think the time to fill the auto primer tubes five times; sort/do all the brass prep mentioned; putting lub on cases (assuming no carbide die on pistol brass) -- ALL MOST significant has been included!
For *me*, again, the time AT the press is but ONE of many operations... just something to think about..
(I've "threatened myself" several times, through the years, to simply decap a lot, put in a new primer, drop in some measured powder, and seat the bullet; VERSUS doing another lot with pin tumbled measured brass, etc., etc., etc. etc. -- to see IF there'll be a measurable difference at the target However, in the competitive shooting game, I'd not take the chance omitting steps which indeed, will greatly speed up the loading process. )
geo

Good points,IMO. Just sayin', in case no one else does.

[asmith80]

The inline ejector finger allows the turret to kick out a finished case on the up stroke into a bin like on a progressive. It's a little metal and rubber piece that fits over the indexing rod and moves around with it. If it's timed right, as the ram lowers on the last station it pushes the finished case out of the shell holder and down a ramp into a bin. It's pretty slick and does speed things up a bit.

You seem to check things a lot more than I do. I do an initial check to make sure of powder charge and OAL, and then I check maybe every 30 rounds or so.

[NyFirefighter357]

A little sidetrack to the topic, but I'm pretty impressed with the bolded above.

I average 60+-75 per hour usually, but when I get to rocking & rollin and things going smoothly with no interuptions, I can run almost to 100 a hour on the basic 4 hole LCT. ( I have had it over a year now, so it is not that it is new to me.)That is with everything setup & ready to go in front of me, Press to my right as I am right handed, primers in the primer dispenser, scale & trickler in front of me at bent arms distance, powder measure to my left & loaded & calibrated to throw what I want, boolits & cases directly in front of me as well as a calipers & case gauge. I must add that I check powder weight & case gauge "every load & round" before it goes into the box as completed, as well as check OAL about every 5-10 rounds, so that can eat up a little time.

I am not sure of what the auto shell ejector finger & indexing rod could do to the press to make it run faster, or whatever other improvements related to speed you have done, but if sometime, If you can take the time to tell me, please, or send maybe me some pics of what you are doing & your press setup, that basically could double my current output 60-75/100 RPM to your 150 RPM "taking your time", I would appreciate it. Thanks!


G'Luck! on what ya decide to do for a new press!





Good points,IMO. Just sayin', in case no one else does.

It's a simple mod you can do yourself or buy the parts, reverse indexing rod (I made one) & an arm mounted to the indexing rod that sweeps the loaded round off the shell holder into a bin.

https://youtu.be/Dw34yzynAa0



https://youtu.be/xKifVNWLKN4

You can also buy them as a set: This one works for 4 stge operation (4 pulls sweeps the case off)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Classic...frcectupt=true

This one is used if your using it for single stage final stge operation (each pull sweeps the case off)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Classic...frcectupt=true

[fast ronnie]

I got a SQDB about a year ago. I can easily do more than 300 an hour. As I load for several different pistols. I had to buiy several sets of dies. It takes about 10 minutes or so to change over, and that includes time to reset the powder measure. This press has really impressed me.

I got mine in a trade, or I would never have stepped up to this press. Knowing what I know now, I would have done this years ago.

I only have one regret, and that is that I would like to have a 650 to load rifle with. The Square Deal is only for pistol.